Drivers License - For 5th Wheel and Truck..

I believe that there is reciprocity between the states on licensing requirements but not on things like triple towing that are safety issues and are on a state-by-state basis. I believe that there is a disclaimer in all states that exempt RV's being driven/pulled for personal use from weight limits and know that RV's are not required to stop in weigh stations as long as they are not being driven/towed as a commercial unit, ie: new Rv being delivered.

Driving Test?

62cwil said:

I know for a fact in CA you need an endorsement on a regular drivers license if you tow a rig weighing more than 10K. I read about it on a forum a few years ago and checked the CA web site and sure enough if says you do. Several weeks later I took my grandson to the DMV and while there I decided to apply. They had me fill out a form and then take a test only. I passed and now have a Drivers License that has a 10K endorsement for 5th wheel over 10k.

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As i understand you did not have to take a driving test and have your rig there.
For the noncommercial Class A you have to have your rig, drive and back it up. My problem is for that license is the catch 22 that you have to arrive at the DMV LEAGALLY with a correctly licensed driver driving the rig, or risk a citation and possible impoundment.

I have driven my RV in all states except Alaska, Hawaii, and Washington state and have never stopped at a weigh station nor have I had a problem. Even passed State Troopers running radar and commercial enforcement without issue. I you are towing legally you won't have a problem.

Bill, yes you are correct. If your trailer is 15001 #, you have to have someone with the proper endorsment drive the vehicle to DMV. The only time you have to take the drive test is for "class A" non-commercial. BTW, most DMV's have no idea of what you are talking about when you ask for either test. Amazing.

HT, come on down, you would probably never be stopped for anything. You forget my truck and the Horn are registered in Montana. I never get stopped. You might if you do something stupid though.

Montana has a 1 time pay permanent plate also and no smog laws. One heck of a lot cheaper than Calif. Pays to own property there. Bob

jnphobe said:

Hey Truknutt; Did you know that in PA you can get a permenent plate for any trailer over 10,000 lbs GVW. I think its $125 one time fee. Just a thought Thats what I did. JON

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No kiddin' ? She's registered until 2012 so I'll have to do the math on that since I will be hanging onto this Cyclone for quite a few years, or so sayeth the "Keeper of the Wallet"!! Hmm, but if I do the permanent plate thing "SWMBO" will lock me into keeping this one forever....

I was able to con her into the new truck by "strategically" buying the Cyclone that was out of my 2003's towing weight range!! She's pretty smart so she's probably on to me now especially 'cause like all he-men I beat my chest a little to much when I pulled off that little coup!!

Thanks for that little unspoken PennDot tid-bit, Jon.

One issue to consider is if you do not have the required license or endorsement and get in an accident, how will the police and your insurance company or the other vehicles insurance company react? Being you are not licensed to operate your vehicle, are you in big trouble? My guess is , yes. The police may cite you and your insurance may balk at your claim and the other guy's insurance may sue you.

Something to think about. Are you willing to take the Chance?

By the way I have the proper endorsement on my license, do you?

I have heard all kinds of horror stories about vehicles and trailers impounded, people stopped by police and made to weigh, just about any scenario you can think of. Vehicle accidents that landed someone in prison for 20 years, because they were overweight. But, I do not know one person that it has happened to. I have only heard stories about a friend of a friend, or they read it on some forum. I have traveled in almost every state west of the Mississippi, and have never had a policeman of any kind ever give me a second glance. When you are traveling just look at all the RVs out there on the roads. If the cops were sitting at the border waiting to jump on Gramps and Grams tooling down the road, I am not sure that would sit too well with the tourist industry. If I knew some state was doing that, I would sure look for another place to spend my time and money, and most of you probably would too.

p.s. Losing elizabeth's vacation spending alone could cripple the economy of most states.

azbound said:

One issue to consider is if you do not have the required license or endorsement and get in an accident, how will the police and your insurance company or the other vehicles insurance company react? Being you are not licensed to operate your vehicle, are you in big trouble? My guess is , yes. The police may cite you and your insurance may balk at your claim and the other guy's insurance may sue you.

Something to think about. Are you willing to take the Chance?

By the way I have the proper endorsement on my license, do you?

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I don't think that is a big worry. Look at it this way, how many accidents are caused by illegal activities such as speeding, illegal lane changes, failure to control speed, running red lights, running stop signs, no tail lights, driving without lights, driving while intoxicated, etc etc etc ... Insurance companies still pay claims on crashes where those are causes. You can what if yourself to death and if you want to worry your way through life go ahead. As for me, I will try to do the right thing and let the 'chips fall where they may". Then maybe I can live longer without the senseless worrying. BTW an insurance company will pay a claim on an unlicensed driver driving your vehicle as long as they had your permission to drive your vehicle. (At least in Texas they will)

California RV licensing requirements

At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire here is a link to the California RV Handbook. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648.pdf

Re wdk450's comment on law enforcement waiting at the border to stop over length vehicles. I used to own a 40' diesel pusher with which I towed a 28' foot boat on a triple axle trailer all over the southwest. Never got stopped or even looked at. This combination was 71' long not counting the outdrive on the boat and both were registered in California.
California law is 65' for a combination of vehicles.

Re jmgratz comments on drivers that commit violations of the vehicle code. Based on my experience (30 years with a SoCal police dept) it is those drivers that draw the attention of law enforcement. It is my opinion that it is these same drivers who start the rumors on forums and blogs about how they were stopped for only 5 MPH over the speed limit when in fact they were 20 MPH or better and the officer cut the driver a break and wrote the cite for less.

Oldlthrneck is right. I have heard the same horror stories but I have never talked to anyone who had it happen to them. It is always "I heard...".

Having said that, I have one experience where I was stopped just as I crossed in to Iowa on I80. My wife and I had just picked up our new 3612 Razor in Ohio last August and had just entered Iowa when I saw two state troopers on an enforcement stop. As I approached the stop I moved over one lane for safety and noted that my speed was 5 MPH under the posted limit. One of the officers looked at our rig, sprinted to his car and pulled us over. The reason for stopping us? He thought we were contract hauling the Razor for a dealer; even though we had the appropriate temp tag prominently displayed on the rear of the trailer. He became even more apologetic about the stop when he found that I had a Class A commercial license. The trooper was at all times courteous and professional. He said he followed a hunch and was wrong.

I know my experience in Iowa is not the same as being dragged to a weigh station etc., but on occasion "stuff" happens. Kind of a long way around to saying that if you "do what is right" you should have no problems in any state.

Harley Rider has it right on. I got stopped for speeding in Tulare, CA and the Chp gave me a fix it ticket instead. The CA vehicle code states and my drivers licence now reflects that number 41. Can drive recreational vehicle over 10,001 up to 15,000 Lbs. This is a 20 question, read the book for 20 minutes test. Its in the CA DMV. If you get stopped in another state that doesn't have that on their books, it will do u no good as u were stopped for a different reason, so it won't help if there is a reciprocal agreement. I was warned that if I was in an accident in Ca without this endoresement that it put me in jeopardy. Whatever that means.

In BC, if you tow a rig of more thn 10,000# GVW, you must have a Class 1 (commercial Truck license), a class three (Bus or transportation) or a "51" endorsement (Heavy house trailer). The 51 endorsement requires you to pass a written test and a road test with an examiner. If you don't have this endorsement and you are involved in an accident, your insurance can refuse to cover you. It is a good idea. Judging by the number of big rigs I have seen barreling down the highway behind 1/2 ton pickups, there needs to be some enforcement. People think that just because the 1/2 ton pulls it, they are OK. They don't know or don't care that the truck brakes are too small, the gear ratios are wrong and their frame and suspension is under huge stress.

I guess you're all concerned about whether the driver of that 40' 5th wheel and 1/2 ton truck is capable of operating that 20-25K pound rig.

How about this - at least in New Jersey, a CDL is not required for ANY fire fighter to operate a fire vehicle. Doesn't matter if it is the department's mini cooper, 5-8,000 gallon water tanker with it's own dynamics or the 79,000 pound ladder truck with air brakes.

Think about it the next time you are a little slow to move over for a fire vehicle "legally" traveling 10 mph over the speed limit, with a bit of adrenaline flowing, in a vehicle he/she may or may not have any knowledge of it's mechanics.

porthole said:

I guess you're all concerned about whether the driver of that 40' 5th wheel and 1/2 ton truck is capable of operating that 20-25K pound rig.

How about this - at least in New Jersey, a CDL is not required for ANY fire fighter to operate a fire vehicle. Doesn't matter if it is the department's mini cooper, 5-8,000 gallon water tanker with it's own dynamics or the 79,000 pound ladder truck with air brakes.

Think about it the next time you are a little slow to move over for a fire vehicle "legally" traveling 10 mph over the speed limit, with a bit of adrenaline flowing, in a vehicle he/she may or may not have any knowledge of it's mechanics.

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We don't require a CDL in Michigan to drive fire trucks (or RV's), either. But we require training and state certification that you have been trained and authorized to drive. WE train and mandate that our drivers do not exceed safe conditions, wet or dry, and that they stop at ALL intersections, regardless of the right of way and secure the right of passage for each individual lane. The officer or senior FF next to the driver is also held accountable. Our insurance carrier requires our drivers be at least 23 years old. We use their training program (VFIS-Emergency Vehicle Operator Course), which has been adopted by the state. I'm an instructor for this course. The vast majority of emergency vehicle operators do not jump in, flip on the lights/sirens, and go pedal to metal. Simply having a piece of paper in your pocket does not make you a safe driver, regardless of the vehicle.

Well I'm in the process of getting my Non-Commercial Class A here in CA for my big rig. I passed the written test today and turned in my health questionnaire. Now there is another delay. The health questionnaire has to be reviewed by someone in Sacramento before I can take the driving test. I guess they're concerned I might keel over at the wheel because of my heart. Well duh, they've been letting me drive for the last 12 years no questions asked. That's California for you. If they come back and deny my license, somebody better come and tie me down.

Those fine folks residing in Nevada pulling trailers in excess of 10,000 lbs must have a "J" endorsement added to their class "C" license. As of July 1, 2009 both a 20 question written test and a drive skill test are required.

No big deal only 6 1/2 hours over two days so far to register TV and apply for Nevada DL only to find out a drive skill test is now required for "J" endorsement. Skill test is not allowed at Henderson, NV DMV 5 miles away because parking access is a problem, so will have to tow 5er about 30 miles to DMV in Las Vegas to prove I can drive around the block and back into a simulated campsite and verify 5er VIN for NV registration.

Gosh, I have only been driving for over 51 years (since 16 plus a military license and owned RVs over 45 years)..........I'm a little nervous......... don't know if I have enough driving experience to show my skills.

What do you think "larryheadhunter".......could you give me a reference letter to prove that I have some experience backing up the Bighorns???????

Forrest

Towing an RV in BC of more than 4600 kg (10,141.26 lbs)

If you want to tow an RV that weighs more than 4600 kg (total loaded weight - not dry weight) and neither the recreational trailer nor your truck has air brakes, you need:

a class 1, 2 or 3 driver's license, or
a class 4 or 5 driver's license with a heavy trailer endorsement (code 20), or
a class 4 or 5 driver's license with a house trailer endorsement (code 51).

note:
a code 20 endorsement needs to pass a class 3 written and road test and meet commercial driver vision and medical standards.
a code 51 endorsement needs to pass a recreational trailer knowledge test and road test and meet commercial driver vision and medical standards.

Does anyone know if in BC, the pin weight is concidered part of the tow vehicle? Meaning that a fifth wheel loaded up that weighs 10500 Lbs but has a hitch weight of 1300 Lbs, the weight of the trailer that would be used to determine if you need the endorsement (code 20) or not is only 9200 Lbs, therefore making it ok to tow with a standard class 5 licence?

Forrest Fetherolf said:

Those fine folks residing in Nevada pulling trailers in excess of 10,000 lbs must have a "J" endorsement added to their class "C" license. As of July 1, 2009 both a 20 question written test and a drive skill test are required.

No big deal only 6 1/2 hours over two days so far to register TV and apply for Nevada DL only to find out a drive skill test is now required for "J" endorsement. Skill test is not allowed at Henderson, NV DMV 5 miles away because parking access is a problem, so will have to tow 5er about 30 miles to DMV in Las Vegas to prove I can drive around the block and back into a simulated campsite and verify 5er VIN for NV registration.

Gosh, I have only been driving for over 51 years (since 16 plus a military license and owned RVs over 45 years)..........I'm a little nervous......... don't know if I have enough driving experience to show my skills.

What do you think "larryheadhunter".......could you give me a reference letter to prove that I have some experience backing up the Bighorns???????

Forrest

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Forrest, you could backin your rig in the dark, with blindfolds on, and land right on a dime. Free lessons by Forrest, if you can catch him.
I got a fixit "endorsement" ticket in 2008 while driving in Tulare county, CA, which is required of all 5th wheelers with rigs between 10,001 and 15,000 lbs GVWR. It's a 20 question test, that I passed with flying colors. Any CA let me know if you need a copy of the test, as I saved mine. Cheap for a beer.

Jaysmith said:

Does anyone know if in BC, the pin weight is concidered part of the tow vehicle? Meaning that a fifth wheel loaded up that weighs 10500 Lbs but has a hitch weight of 1300 Lbs, the weight of the trailer that would be used to determine if you need the endorsement (code 20) or not is only 9200 Lbs, therefore making it ok to tow with a standard class 5 licence?

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Your weight for license classification would be your trailer's total weight of 10,500 lbs - pin weight is still part of your trailer weight - and your truck is still towing the entire 10,500 lbs.

Hi Jaysmith,
The easiest method of determining the total trailer weight considered by the law is on the little plaque on the side of your rig that gives the date of Mfg., and for sure the GVWR. When the cop gave me the fixit license endorsement ticket, the first thing he did was go look at that label on the RV to determine my max weight was 14,800 lbs. I hope that answers your question.