Lippert springs strike again

Tricky
I would suggest that you not replace the shocks. At the angle they are installed they provide no support.

Just remove all of them and have the tires balanced.

BC

Bobs right just remove all the shocks and go have a fun trip. If you want to replace them do it when you return.

TrickyD said:

Re: Lippert springs strike again

After reading this thread and many many others with the same suspension problems, I decided to crawl under my BH3055 and check. I found almost exactly what the pics posted by RubiconAg show except I had nine loose nuts and the frt. LH shock top nut was gone and shock was rubbing on the tire! I am just so impressed with Heartland/Lippert quality! Seems every time we have gone anywhere with this thing we've had problems. Most I was able to fix myself, but several were repaired under extended warranty. I can't believe that I am supposed to crawl under the trlr and check the suspension every time it moves.
My tow vehicle travels the same roads and I don't have to check it completely every time it moves. Really poor quality!
Anyway does anyone know it there is anywhere in Winnipeg I can get replacement shocks? Is seems dealers for SOB's don't
carry suspension parts. The part # on the shock is 122108, and I found a kit on Lippert's site, but we are supposed to be about 1500 miles away in a week so if I can get replacements locally it would be great.
Does anyone have an alternate part number like Gabriel or Monroe or other common manufacturer??
TIA

TrickyD

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Try measuring your shocks and match them up on this PDF to get a part number. Run a part number search online to get the best price.
My unit didn't come with shocks but i found some that work through the Monroe PDF.
http://www.monroe.com/catalog/documents/08_MountingLengthSheet.pdf

Just a quick question.

If I remember correctly, the spring that came on my Sundance XLT w/ 5500# axles are rated at 3500#. Why, after looking at other manufacturer's springs sets, are they 6 and 7 leafs to get to the same rating whereas mine are only 4? Just sayin'!

My bighorn came with upgraded 7000# axles and springs were 6 leaf and 2900# which is a 6000 lb spring set for each axle. I upgraded after a spring break to 3500lb which gave me 7000 lb springs for each 7000lb axle. I seriously doubt if you have a 3500 lb spring on your sundance. That would be very stiff and overkill. Also a 3500 lb spring would have 7 leafs at least.

lhetsler said:

My bighorn came with upgraded 7000# axles and springs were 6 leaf and 2900# which is a 6000 lb spring set for each axle. I upgraded after a spring break to 3500lb which gave me 7000 lb springs for each 7000lb axle. I seriously doubt if you have a 3500 lb spring on your sundance. That would be very stiff and overkill. Also a 3500 lb spring would have 7 leafs at least.

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The 3500# springs that were on my 08' 3600RL (standard equipment) had 6 leafs...the 4000# springs that are on there now have 7 leafs...these were replaced by Lippert.

I always thought my 6 leaf springs were 3500 lbs too, but when I took them to a spring and axle place, they told me they were 2900 lbs and ordered me some 3500lbs that were seven leafs. I don't know maybe all springs do not have the same thickness or strength of leaf. The brand of new springs I used was from Dayton Springs.

I've now logged about 5000 miles on my 2010 Roadwarrior 395 (42'). I have 4 leaf springs under each of the three axles. After this latest trip (1440 miles round trip), I've noticed that the leafs don't have the curve they once had.

I've weighed at the scales during each outing and have been around 14k pounds on the trailer axles. Should I expect these 4 leaf springs to go flat pretty soon? Not much arch left in the now considering the few miles and the fact that I haven't exceeded the 18k total weight for the axles.

It is hard to say what to do. I thought it was just everyone else's problem, until it happened to me last month, the broken springs cost me $2100 in repairs and we we lucky there was no damage to the slides. I think, if it doesn't look right, I would at least take it to a spring and axle place and have them take a look at it. My opinion of most dealers is they won't know, they just do stock item for item replacement and have no real expertise in spring and axles.

Don't waste money at any time on shocks that came with the trailer. Crawl back under the trailer and take a closer look at the shocks, you will find that they are probably bent. They cannot possibly be effective at the angle they are welded on. I replaced many components of my suspension at Standen's Springs in Calgary. They shocks now are nearly vertical and are actually shorter. When I look at them the rod is nice and shiney and is obviously moving up and down like they are supposed to. Makes a huge difference. You could call Standen's to see what shock they are using.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Westxsrt10 thanks for the link to Monroe! downloaded and saved the chart so I'll be doing some measuring tomorrow, and will crawl back under (if it dries up enough) with my work light and do a real thorough inspection
of the springs, shackles, etc.
Don't really like the idea of running without the shocks since they must serve some purpose other than a major source of aggravation. Managed to find a pair of shocks today at sob dealer. Kinda pricey at $54.95 ea plus tax, and about a hundred bucks for fuel. Probably should have bought 4 cuz I'm betting the other two are bent also.
I've read all the posts I could find re axle/suspension but am wondering if Jim or anyone at Heartland has addressed the reasoning behind the ludicrous mounting angle? If they don't add anything to the suspension group, why are they there? As I
said very aggravating and if this schmozzle was on a powered vehicle I think there would be a major recall to make things right.
Anyway thanks for the help again and I'll have to sleep on whether or not to run without the shocks!

TrickyD

BruteForce said:

I've now logged about 5000 miles on my 2010 Roadwarrior 395 (42'). I have 4 leaf springs under each of the three axles. After this latest trip (1440 miles round trip), I've noticed that the leafs don't have the curve they once had.

I've weighed at the scales during each outing and have been around 14k pounds on the trailer axles. Should I expect these 4 leaf springs to go flat pretty soon? Not much arch left in the now considering the few miles and the fact that I haven't exceeded the 18k total weight for the axles.

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I have put nearly 7k on my Sundance, weighed befor each trip right around 9k (I think 8800, but not sure). I have noticed that the springs are somewhat flat, flatter than I am comfortable with for sure.

On the comment about 3500# springs being too much, maybe, but not by much. Gross for the trailer is 11,200, that comes to 2900# on each tire/spring. the 4 leaf springs I am seeing after market are rated at either 2k or 2.5k. Guessing by the reputation of Lippert, these would be of the 2k variety. That would definately explain the sag we are all experiencing.

Basically, the supplied springs are rated for the dry weight of the trailer...

I asked a warranty rep at Lippert about the shocks and his reply was; Thats the way they are mounted in the rv industry. We agreed to disagree on that subject as well as others.
I am having the upper shock mounts moved and new shocks installed by Hendersons Lineup on our way back to CA in Aug. as well as 8k springs installed.

Tankie said:

I asked a warranty rep at Lippert about the shocks and his reply was; Thats the way they are mounted in the rv industry. We agreed to disagree on that subject as well as others.
I am having the upper shock mounts moved and new shocks installed by Hendersons Lineup on our way back to CA in Aug. as well as 8k springs installed.

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I think he need to check other manufacturers. My Alfa Gold had shocks mounted in the vertical much like they are in an automobile. They worked great.

TrickyD said:

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Westxsrt10 thanks for the link to Monroe! downloaded and saved the chart so I'll be doing some measuring tomorrow, and will crawl back under (if it dries up enough) with my work light and do a real thorough inspection
of the springs, shackles, etc.
Don't really like the idea of running without the shocks since they must serve some purpose other than a major source of aggravation. Managed to find a pair of shocks today at sob dealer. Kinda pricey at $54.95 ea plus tax, and about a hundred bucks for fuel. Probably should have bought 4 cuz I'm betting the other two are bent also.
I've read all the posts I could find re axle/suspension but am wondering if Jim or anyone at Heartland has addressed the reasoning behind the ludicrous mounting angle? If they don't add anything to the suspension group, why are they there? As I
said very aggravating and if this schmozzle was on a powered vehicle I think there would be a major recall to make things right.
Anyway thanks for the help again and I'll have to sleep on whether or not to run without the shocks!

TrickyD

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Contrary to a lot of opinions on the forums, the shocks do serve a huge purpose. If you bent shocks then you have spring/pot hole issues as well. We have had coaches for years with shocks on the same angle and never bent one. They move less so they have to be good shocks. That is they move less distance due to the angel but they still serve their purpose. The only way not to have them is to install the CP or Torsion axles and then they still help adsorb the large pot hole bounce.

Compare tires that are on axles that don't have shocks after several thousand miles and you Will see the difference. Also anyone that has towed with and without shocks should note the way things ride in the Coach.

Either shocks or CP or pay the price later on repairs to your coach. Helps with the chucking as well and most of us prefer to minimize that.

Well after reading so much about spring issues, I finally crawled under the BH this morning. Yep, 15 of the 16 U bolt nuts where much less than 65 ft lbs. That's what I torqued them too. Also the springs, although none were broke, did appeard to be flattening out. In fact, for the rear axle on the OD side I had to jack up the frame about 1/8=inch to obtain clearance for my deep socket and torque wrench. I guess I will evenyually replace the springs but plan to upgrade to maybe five or six leaf. I'm in no hurry as I'm living in it so not moving right now. I'll keep reading and searching to see what's best. Don't want to go to stiff but when we do start traveling we plan to load her up pretty heavy. An upgrade to 7000# axles not in budget anytime soon, but can manage springs. I also have the tools and where-with-it-all to change them out. It is a shame we have to go through this, but with manufactures going as cheap as possible and the wonderful highways we have today, that's life.

I'm thinking about going to the 6 leaf 7000# springs. I know since I have 6000# axles that doesl not increase my GVW but may give me more piece of mind. My question is I want to go to 7000# springs do I order 4, 6 leaf, 3500 Lb springs, giving me the combined 7000 per axle? Since my unit is a 2006 I'm sure no Lippert will be no help, although I plan to comment to their customer service concerning this and the U bolt tightness issue. U bolts should not be something that requires regular maintenance. How many people have ever checked the torque of axle U bolts on there TV?

Hi all,
I am laid up per the thread larryheadhunter is being operated on , but I would suggest calling Lippert and ask for the VP of Warranty ANDREW VONSCHOINK if you don't have any luck with the regular reps. My original thread about Lippert which was titled something about Lippert not carrying safety garnered over 150 posts and caught Andrew's attention. We got a few HL rigs fixed satisfactorily but I am very disappointmented that they have just put their finger in the dike instead of addressing the real problem. They are so large, it's hard to get their attention. One day someone will take this to the next level. Again call Andrew is the best suggestion. Good luck.

Seems as though every week there is a spring issue. Knock on wood we have never had a spring issue. All of our 5th wheels have had Lippert frames and springs. I was at the Factory and the Frame that was use as the demo frame and got to look at it up close and personal. I did check the u-bolts several months ago and they all were to spec. on torq. I'm begining to think something isn't right each time we are in a different I make it a point to ask have you had any suspension issues. I think now I will ask have you checked the torq? Haven't found but a couple who have had issues. I guess its time some have the springs checked and find out were they are being made. I haven't seen it for a fact but heard that China is making them for some manufactors. This just shouldn't be happening, but the tire situation is still happening????

Hi All, Just recieved my 4000# 7 leaf springs today. I'm happy to say they DON'T have China painted on them like BOTH old 3500# sets did and what's more is the clip holding them together say EMCO on them, THANK GOD an AMERICAN spring made right there in TULSA.
Hopefully the second set on the 3670 now will hold up for this weekend's 400 mile round trip to the Oregon Jamboree and I'll get the new ones on next week. Just for grins & giggles I'll post some pics of the old set vs the new ones so you can see the diff in the arch of the springs.
Happy days are comming!!!!

As previously reported we had our Lippert springs replaced with 3500# ones from a shop in Salt Lake City a while back. Lippert "kindly" declined to do anything for us, despite our massive documentation. We now have traveled several thousand miles, including to date, most of Alaska, and the better springs are doing well, as is our rig. Things inside ride much better, even on washboard roads. I think even I 40 in Arkansas may not be so bad, after what we have seen. The springs we now have are USA as well. Sorry to say, Lippert is sorry-------. We are happy traveling Alaska in our BH-have seen many Heartland rigs in this part of the world, in fact more than we see in the lower 48. Happy travels all. Nan