Holy Moley are injectors $$$$

NYSUPstater

Well-known member
This is about my semi work truck, but thought I'd pass on. Truck is a '16 Freightliner Cascadia w/ DDT 13 (Detroit Diesel) w/ 4000,000 miles. Couple weeks ago, both engine lights and shut down lite all came on 5 miles after leaving the yard. Ended up getting towed to dealer. Ends up they say it needs all 6 inj to be replaced despite just 2 "supposedly" that are bad. Bosch makes the inj who also said to replace all 6. We've always just replaced the "bad" ones in the past, but they were on Cummins' motors, so haven't a clue as to why 6. Each inj costs $750.00 EACH !!!!!! YOWZA YOWZA YOWZA. Plus, guess when the inj went, they run more fuel thru the system thus contaminating the DEF filters to the tune of $3,000.00!!! So dealer quoted company 10 grand to get it fixed. Shop boss thought he was being taken to the cleaners, so he called a couple sister divisions to see what they do and they told him they get all 6 replaced as well as the DEF filters (which have a $1,000.00 core, so net cost is 2 grand). Long story short, after a few more calls and some higher ups getting involved, total cost got reduced by a few G's.

When I was told of all this, my jaw dropped as I never thought an inj would be sooooooo much $$$$$$. Sad part is, our division has all but probly 6 out of 65 trucks that are not Detroits. Corporate wide, pretty much everything is a Detroit's. We are not alone as a LOT of companies that have Freightliner's have Detroit's. Many say the trucks are junk, but IMO,I think overall they are decent trucks, but just like pick-ups, the DEF side of things is what's killing them or what causes most engine lites to come on. As for why my injectors went, who knows?

Makes you kinda question wether or not to buy a diesel pick-up in the 1st place, keep trading in every 3-5 years to stay within warranty or see if ext warranty covers inj and such. OR we all need to play the Powerball lottery! LOL
 

mlpeloquin

Well-known member
2013 GMC just under 70k miles and doesn't pass smog. Five codes, $600.00 for three days dianostics and they think, yes think and are not 100% sure its the turbo and the number 1 NOx sensor. $6800.00 estimate in all and no turbo in stock. None. No estimated date for delivery. I suspect that at the cost of the turbo GM does not want to stock them. They are waiting to get enough to fill a minimum order. Dealer rep says it has taken as long as four months. GREAT! I paid the $600 and will be looking at an independent diesel repair shop for an aftermarket or rebuilt turbo. I feel some of your pain. At least they know for sure what is wrong with yours.
 
I replaced my original injectors in my 01 Dodge last year. (hence my avatar) At 300,000 the originals were due. Replaced with a set of 6 new Bosch RV 275’s A little upgrade from stock for a cost of $380. and installed myself in a couple hours. engine still purrs like a kitten.

My work truck is an 01 Freightliner FLD with a 12.7 Detroit, it came about the same time my Dodge did. I have 600K on it now and haul oversized heavy equipment, never been in the engine internally but it’s so stupid simple that even I can work on and maintain it myself.

Whats all this DEF and emission you all speak of :rolleyes:

Ya I know my old dodge is a chatter box and has maintenance issues elsewhere but worth the upkeep IMHO, according to my wife I may have to break down and by a new one eventually but still going keep her around till I die ( truck that is)
 

NYSUPstater

Well-known member
I replaced my original injectors in my 01 Dodge last year. (hence my avatar) At 300,000 the originals were due. Replaced with a set of 6 new Bosch RV 275’s A little upgrade from stock for a cost of $380. and installed myself in a couple hours. engine still purrs like a kitten.

My work truck is an 01 Freightliner FLD with a 12.7 Detroit, it came about the same time my Dodge did. I have 600K on it now and haul oversized heavy equipment, never been in the engine internally but it’s so stupid simple that even I can work on and maintain it myself.

Whats all this DEF and emission you all speak of :rolleyes:

Ya I know my old dodge is a chatter box and has maintenance issues elsewhere but worth the upkeep IMHO, according to my wife I may have to break down and by a new one eventually but still going keep her around till I die ( truck that is)

Thanks to tree huggers and US Gov't, they have been successful in adding so much pollution control crap to diesel engines it's ridiculas. DEF stands for Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Sulfur has been taken out of diesel fuel ( which acted as a lubricant if you will), hence the ultra low sulfur fuel. In a nut shell, After the exhaust exits the turbo, it goes thru a after-treatment of sorts (filters --kinda like a cat converter on gas engines), urea added to aid in cleaning things, extra fuel shot into the after-treatment system to help burn off the soot. When a engine calls for a re-gen, it's usually done when parked, but can do it as well while under way w/o driver knowing it. What happens here is the engine rpm's increase substantially, extra fuel injected into after treatment system and things get H-O-T H-O-T H-O-T. Many times, hoods are open to allow heat to escape. Parts of the exhaust can get cherry red. Recall Ford's "flame-thrower" several years back? This is why. All this does is aids in "cleansing" the system. When all systems work right, it's pretty good. BUT it doesn't take much to have something throw a engine light and it's a trip back to dealer. If under warrantee....GREAT, if not---can be BIG bucks. Another thing w/ DEF equipped trucks, IF a problem is significant enough to throw a engine light, the truck's computer can de-rate your power substantially in order to protect the engine. All this DEF crap has added a huge amount to cost of a diesel engine. Let alone engineers having to figure out how to stuff everything under the hood, frame and all. READ....NIGHTMARE !!!!

I will say this tho, as much as I don't care for all the DEF stuff and associated items, you can place a white t-shirt over the tailpipe and still be clean. The air exiting a diesel is cleaner than the air going in it. Can't say that about older diesels. Heck, even today's cars are not as clean exhaust as diesels are. A lot of breakdowns of trucks is due mainly to something went awry w/ the DEF system.

On a side note, hence orig post, I got my semi back from dealer yesterday. Ran like a top....then again it should.
 

DirtyMax88

Well-known member
This is about my semi work truck, but thought I'd pass on. Truck is a '16 Freightliner Cascadia w/ DDT 13 (Detroit Diesel) w/ 4000,000 miles. Couple weeks ago, both engine lights and shut down lite all came on 5 miles after leaving the yard. Ended up getting towed to dealer. Ends up they say it needs all 6 inj to be replaced despite just 2 "supposedly" that are bad. Bosch makes the inj who also said to replace all 6. We've always just replaced the "bad" ones in the past, but they were on Cummins' motors, so haven't a clue as to why 6. Each inj costs $750.00 EACH !!!!!! YOWZA YOWZA YOWZA. Plus, guess when the inj went, they run more fuel thru the system thus contaminating the DEF filters to the tune of $3,000.00!!! So dealer quoted company 10 grand to get it fixed. Shop boss thought he was being taken to the cleaners, so he called a couple sister divisions to see what they do and they told him they get all 6 replaced as well as the DEF filters (which have a $1,000.00 core, so net cost is 2 grand). Long story short, after a few more calls and some higher ups getting involved, total cost got reduced by a few G's.

When I was told of all this, my jaw dropped as I never thought an inj would be sooooooo much $$$$$$. Sad part is, our division has all but probly 6 out of 65 trucks that are not Detroits. Corporate wide, pretty much everything is a Detroit's. We are not alone as a LOT of companies that have Freightliner's have Detroit's. Many say the trucks are junk, but IMO,I think overall they are decent trucks, but just like pick-ups, the DEF side of things is what's killing them or what causes most engine lites to come on. As for why my injectors went, who knows?

Makes you kinda question wether or not to buy a diesel pick-up in the 1st place, keep trading in every 3-5 years to stay within warranty or see if ext warranty covers inj and such. OR we all need to play the Powerball lottery! LOL

Not knowing alot about how DOT works with the truckers and OTR trucks, is it possible to delete the emission controls, like alot of people do on pick ups? As big as the aftermarket performance products market is for modern diesel pickups, I would think theres a market for you big boys too! I just wasn't sure how strict DOT would be.....
 

LBR

Well-known member
Thanks to tree huggers and US Gov't, they have been successful in adding so much pollution control crap to diesel engines it's ridiculas. DEF stands for Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Sulfur has been taken out of diesel fuel ( which acted as a lubricant if you will), hence the ultra low sulfur fuel. In a nut shell, After the exhaust exits the turbo, it goes thru a after-treatment of sorts (filters --kinda like a cat converter on gas engines), urea added to aid in cleaning things, extra fuel shot into the after-treatment system to help burn off the soot. When a engine calls for a re-gen, it's usually done when parked, but can do it as well while under way w/o driver knowing it. What happens here is the engine rpm's increase substantially, extra fuel injected into after treatment system and things get H-O-T H-O-T H-O-T. Many times, hoods are open to allow heat to escape. Parts of the exhaust can get cherry red. Recall Ford's "flame-thrower" several years back? This is why. All this does is aids in "cleansing" the system. When all systems work right, it's pretty good. BUT it doesn't take much to have something throw a engine light and it's a trip back to dealer. If under warrantee....GREAT, if not---can be BIG bucks. Another thing w/ DEF equipped trucks, IF a problem is significant enough to throw a engine light, the truck's computer can de-rate your power substantially in order to protect the engine. All this DEF crap has added a huge amount to cost of a diesel engine. Let alone engineers having to figure out how to stuff everything under the hood, frame and all. READ....NIGHTMARE !!!!

I will say this tho, as much as I don't care for all the DEF stuff and associated items, you can place a white t-shirt over the tailpipe and still be clean. The air exiting a diesel is cleaner than the air going in it. Can't say that about older diesels. Heck, even today's cars are not as clean exhaust as diesels are. A lot of breakdowns of trucks is due mainly to something went awry w/ the DEF system.

On a side note, hence orig post, I got my semi back from dealer yesterday. Ran like a top....then again it should.

Thanx for the nut shell....very well explained for a diesel layman like myself.
 
Not knowing alot about how DOT works with the truckers and OTR trucks, is it possible to delete the emission controls, like alot of people do on pick ups? As big as the aftermarket performance products market is for modern diesel pickups, I would think theres a market for you big boys too! I just wasn't sure how strict DOT would be.....
In a nut shell, yes they can be deleted, It’s more of a company related issue. If you are an owner operator running under your own numbers and authority you can pretty much delete all you want. At least where I am at the DOT doest get involved the emissions side of things
 

NYSUPstater

Well-known member
01cummins is right. It's a company thing if they want to delete things. DOT doesn't check emissions. Really don't think they will bother removing anything.....at least large companies. Smaller ones might tho. I have a co-worker who has '12 F350 with a 6.7 and he deleted his EGR and DEF. Spent few bucks doing so and claims he's gained HP.

One thing I also failed to mention in my last post, with all the new emissions on semis, HP ratings have had to increase to compensate for everything. Used to be if you had a 425 HP motor, you were like top dog when everything else was 300-350 HP. Now, most fleets are 380-430 HP while others are 500-600 HP with 600 being about the largest HP that I know of currently. Perhaps that's related to what we are seeing w/ our pick-ups as well.

Also, what a lot of folks don't know too is that top speed on most semis is between 62-69 MPH, with a few that can run 70-80 MPH, but they are kinda few and far between. Days of old, trucks would run. But insurance driven has kept things in the 60's MPH area. That's why you may see 1 semi taking sooooooooooo long trying to pass another as 1 may be 1/2-1 MPH faster than the other hence the few mile long pass. Off topic, but figured I share it w/ you all as it came to mind after reading the past replies.
 

DirtyMax88

Well-known member
....Also, what a lot of folks don't know too is that top speed on most semis is between 62-69 MPH, with a few that can run 70-80 MPH, but they are kinda few and far between. Days of old, trucks would run. But insurance driven has kept things in the 60's MPH area. That's why you may see 1 semi taking sooooooooooo long trying to pass another as 1 may be 1/2-1 MPH faster than the other hence the few mile long pass. Off topic, but figured I share it w/ you all as it came to mind after reading the past replies.

Yeah, this is completely believable! They don't let you guys roll on, do they? It's definitely irritating sometimes when there are two trucks drag racing up a long grade at 64 mph and 64.25 mph. LOL. Big brother is watching everything y'all do. I feel like GPS in your trucks has tied your hands quite a bit. We spend alot of time on I-81 between Winchester, VA and Bristol, VA/TN and it has become a total S**t show traveling during normal hours.....

Sorry if we are getting to off topic, but it's nice to chat with someone who's in the industry and is informative, first hand....
 
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