Stuck In Las Cruces
- Thread starter Goldenwingers
- Start date
Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
Well we are still here in Las Cruces waiting to here from the repair facility on when to take the trailer in and get started on the repairs. Thanks to all who have shown support for us in this matter. We will pay the repair bill when the work is finished. We ended up in this situation because both repair facilities involved have stated that they have been bitten on warranty repairs in the past and will no longer do work under warranty, but will work for us and expect pay from us upon completition,. With the trailer only being 21 months old, I was sure was still under warranty but Lippert says that when we purchased the trailer their warranty stated "24 months from date of manufacture". Heartland says that this has changed, since we purchased our trailer, to "24 months from date of purchase". Unfortunately that doesn't help us much. We still have some hope that Heartland will be able to coax Lippert into helping some on the repairs.
I am not sure where we are all headed, in this day and time, with repair facilities refusing to to warranty work because they can not make a fair profit and manucacturers dictating how the repair work will be done and how much they will pay for the repairs. I can understand both sides of the argument, but it certainly places the consumer in a hard spot. I will keep everyone updated once the work begins.
I am not sure where we are all headed, in this day and time, with repair facilities refusing to to warranty work because they can not make a fair profit and manucacturers dictating how the repair work will be done and how much they will pay for the repairs. I can understand both sides of the argument, but it certainly places the consumer in a hard spot. I will keep everyone updated once the work begins.
kakampers
Past Heartland Ambassador
I'm a little confused on this...If I'm reading this right, they still haven't opened the front up to determine exactly what is wrong...correct?
If so, how can they possibly know what it's going to cost, i.e., $6,000 to repair it?? Am I not reading this correctly??
If so, how can they possibly know what it's going to cost, i.e., $6,000 to repair it?? Am I not reading this correctly??
Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
kakampers, from my original post "The estimates to repair the suspension and the pin box (they won’t know the full extent there until the get the front cap off and the closet floor out) are currently over $6000.00." They are, of course, estimating this on like jobs from the past. They can already see the extent of the damage on the suspension system which requires a new tandem axle, seals, U bolt, new springs, etc plus the labor to rebuild the entire suspension.
The pin box problem is more of a variable depending on how far back they find instability. However, the labor just to tear it apart and rebuild it is figured at 30 hours. That could come to a good bit less if they only have to go as far as the bedroom closet, not the entire bedroom floor. Hope this helps explain the estimated cost.
The pin box problem is more of a variable depending on how far back they find instability. However, the labor just to tear it apart and rebuild it is figured at 30 hours. That could come to a good bit less if they only have to go as far as the bedroom closet, not the entire bedroom floor. Hope this helps explain the estimated cost.
repairs
Goldwinger, it seems like alot of money , have you considered a moryde Is suspension system ? if i recall they only run about 3500.00 and include disc brakes., Also have you considered heavier axles? if you have to have these things replaced anyhow and they are not willing to help with the cost , it may be a good time to beef it up, and it may not cost much if anymore. I know that there is other work to be done , but for that much money , I hope that you have looked at doing something will not just get it back to good , but better? Have you had other estimates? Good luck Scott
Goldwinger, it seems like alot of money , have you considered a moryde Is suspension system ? if i recall they only run about 3500.00 and include disc brakes., Also have you considered heavier axles? if you have to have these things replaced anyhow and they are not willing to help with the cost , it may be a good time to beef it up, and it may not cost much if anymore. I know that there is other work to be done , but for that much money , I hope that you have looked at doing something will not just get it back to good , but better? Have you had other estimates? Good luck Scott
RnRCycloner
Active Member
Goldenwingers, sorry to hear about your dilemma. Hope things get solved for your soon. It is good to see Heartland get involved, I wouldn't know why they wouldn't. I guess I don't fully understand why you or any of us would have to deal with Lippert or any other vendor directly. You/we bought a Heartland product, when I look at my Cyclone I see Heartland not Lippert or any other vendor. They are suppliers to Heartland, but it is Heartland's product, and Heartland should stand behind their product whether their suppliers do or not. Heartland should deal with them not us, they have the muscle to get their suppliers attention, we don't.
When I bought my Ford truck, I didn't check what suppliers they used, the engine is not made by Ford, but if it were to break under warranty, I would be looking to Ford to take care of it, not their supplier.
Folks I'm certainly not slamming Heartland, I think they make a good product, I looked hard before I made my Heartland purchase.. There are other RVs on the market that cost less.. I chose Heartland for what I thought was company that produce quality products and would stand behind what they sell. I sure would hate to be disappointed. It troubles me to see Heartland customers having to deal in some of the areas it appears they are to get their RV back on the road... Customer satisfaction is suppose to be one of their selling points.. If the people that are doing the work can't trust the RV company, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the RV company to send funds overnight to the customer for the work authorized to be done.
I'll get off my stump now..
Hope this ends well for you and any other Heartland customer that faces such dilemmas.. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Ron
When I bought my Ford truck, I didn't check what suppliers they used, the engine is not made by Ford, but if it were to break under warranty, I would be looking to Ford to take care of it, not their supplier.
Folks I'm certainly not slamming Heartland, I think they make a good product, I looked hard before I made my Heartland purchase.. There are other RVs on the market that cost less.. I chose Heartland for what I thought was company that produce quality products and would stand behind what they sell. I sure would hate to be disappointed. It troubles me to see Heartland customers having to deal in some of the areas it appears they are to get their RV back on the road... Customer satisfaction is suppose to be one of their selling points.. If the people that are doing the work can't trust the RV company, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the RV company to send funds overnight to the customer for the work authorized to be done.
I'll get off my stump now..
Hope this ends well for you and any other Heartland customer that faces such dilemmas.. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Ron
Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
kakampers, the pin box has pushed about 1/2" up into the fiberglass, even when unhitched. Part of the beauty molding is now hanging loose while the screw remains in the fiberglass above. I noticed the pin box needed caulking a couple of weeks before our last move and re-caulked it. Within three hours on the road all of the caulking was broken again. We've towed this unit 6,000 miles and know that this is not normal. When we took it to the shop he immediately thought there was a problem and said that it should not be put on the highway until repaired. Is he shining us on?? Well sure anything is possible, but when three out of the first four people we ask for guidance send us to the same place we tend to be convinced!
Scott, our current Mor/Ryde is crushed and we already have hydraulic disc brakes. The new suspension will be beefed up with thicker walled axles and 7 leaf springs. Certainly if we went back with the same set up that we had we could expect the same problems again before two years had passed.
Ron, be careful not to twist you ankle when you climb down off of that stump. LOL
Scott, our current Mor/Ryde is crushed and we already have hydraulic disc brakes. The new suspension will be beefed up with thicker walled axles and 7 leaf springs. Certainly if we went back with the same set up that we had we could expect the same problems again before two years had passed.
Ron, be careful not to twist you ankle when you climb down off of that stump. LOL
kakampers
Past Heartland Ambassador
Are you seeing any other indication of problems on the front of the 5er, i.e., cracks in sidewall, molding on the underside of front, running along upper deck down front of cargo area coming loose or opening up, etc. If not, I'd not be so ready to jump to the conclusion that there is a problem with the frame in the pinbox area.
Until the front is opened up and frame area exposed, if it was me, I'd have to question that assumption. Why not authorize them to open things up and investigate only, while you're present, and then go from there...you never know what they/you might actually find? Could be alot less than $6,000...JMHO.
Until the front is opened up and frame area exposed, if it was me, I'd have to question that assumption. Why not authorize them to open things up and investigate only, while you're present, and then go from there...you never know what they/you might actually find? Could be alot less than $6,000...JMHO.
jpmorgan37
Well-known member
Don;
Is there any way that you could get a Lippert rep to come and inspect the unit before they started to tear it apart? After reading your different posts, I think there are some questionable assumptions being made. JMHO
Is there any way that you could get a Lippert rep to come and inspect the unit before they started to tear it apart? After reading your different posts, I think there are some questionable assumptions being made. JMHO
repair
Don , I knew from your post that you had Moryde, I just didn't know if it was the IS or RE, like Creeper asked , how are the two items related? I also agree with Tate in that if you are having these kinds of problems with a relatively new Landmark , what does that say for the rest of there [less expensive ] product line? Owners forums such as these play a key roll in the decision of prospective buyers like myself , and as such I am beginning to really question whether OR not a Heartland product is going to be the best choice for us , based on the growing number of complaints on this forum among current owners.
I have been coming to this site for a couple of years and in my observation, it seems that the list of owner complaints is only growing , yes they are making more trailers and yes every brand has its issues, but the complaints about Quality Control seem to only be increasing , and mostly about the same types of problems, which tells me that they either aren't listening or they don't care. Lippert has an industry wide reputation of poor workmanship and or poor customer service, so why would Heartland continue to use them as a supplier of one of ,if not the most important part of any structure the FOUNDATION or frame of there trailers?
Is it the price, are they the only company that is capable of the volume? Whatever the case I for one feel that they should know that if they continue to use them ,that when a customer like Don and his wife have a failure of this size and expense , that Lippert wont warranty that they should step up and foot the bill,[remember this wasn't an accident] but if it were there liability would far exceed this cost. With all the problems in the current RV industry ,Heartland has a chance to set themselves apart in the trailer market by providing there customers with better quality , and service, to insure there survival . People that spend this kind of money are simply tired of the ongoing standards in todays RVs and who can blame them.
Just look at the number of people on this forum with the same old plumbing problems, electrical problems,tire problems,etc. Example , it was no secret that they were having problems with the Jensen TVs , they listened and now use Samsung and suddenly no more complaints. Why cant that be used as a model for other areas of concern?,like tires, put Goodyear's on the dang trailers and charge the difference, boom you have just reduced your liability by 70 percent or more. people will gladly pay the difference because it is the only thing between there investment and the road...seems like a no brainer to me .Enough of my opinion , I hope that Don gets his rig up and going again and that Heartland helps him with it...Scott
Don , I knew from your post that you had Moryde, I just didn't know if it was the IS or RE, like Creeper asked , how are the two items related? I also agree with Tate in that if you are having these kinds of problems with a relatively new Landmark , what does that say for the rest of there [less expensive ] product line? Owners forums such as these play a key roll in the decision of prospective buyers like myself , and as such I am beginning to really question whether OR not a Heartland product is going to be the best choice for us , based on the growing number of complaints on this forum among current owners.
I have been coming to this site for a couple of years and in my observation, it seems that the list of owner complaints is only growing , yes they are making more trailers and yes every brand has its issues, but the complaints about Quality Control seem to only be increasing , and mostly about the same types of problems, which tells me that they either aren't listening or they don't care. Lippert has an industry wide reputation of poor workmanship and or poor customer service, so why would Heartland continue to use them as a supplier of one of ,if not the most important part of any structure the FOUNDATION or frame of there trailers?
Is it the price, are they the only company that is capable of the volume? Whatever the case I for one feel that they should know that if they continue to use them ,that when a customer like Don and his wife have a failure of this size and expense , that Lippert wont warranty that they should step up and foot the bill,[remember this wasn't an accident] but if it were there liability would far exceed this cost. With all the problems in the current RV industry ,Heartland has a chance to set themselves apart in the trailer market by providing there customers with better quality , and service, to insure there survival . People that spend this kind of money are simply tired of the ongoing standards in todays RVs and who can blame them.
Just look at the number of people on this forum with the same old plumbing problems, electrical problems,tire problems,etc. Example , it was no secret that they were having problems with the Jensen TVs , they listened and now use Samsung and suddenly no more complaints. Why cant that be used as a model for other areas of concern?,like tires, put Goodyear's on the dang trailers and charge the difference, boom you have just reduced your liability by 70 percent or more. people will gladly pay the difference because it is the only thing between there investment and the road...seems like a no brainer to me .Enough of my opinion , I hope that Don gets his rig up and going again and that Heartland helps him with it...Scott
Very good post, Scott b!!! In my recent go round with the springs on my 09' 3670 I have thought the same thing as you and wondered why Heartland couldn't do their undercarriage in house with REAL parts, not ***** junk as Lippert uses. I for one would gladly pay a little more for a trailer that will go down the road with out worries or failures. I think if this starts to be or already is a growing trend with Lippert Heartland will some how step up and do inhouse like Carriage does. Heartland has the brainpower and leadership to do this but it is a very big investment and may not be able to swing it in these trying times. Lippert has most of these manufacturers by the #$%^'s as I think they are pretty much the only ones that can produce what all the manufactures need in a reasonable time. They ought to slow down some and get it right a little more than they're doing now. Faiures have to stop before some are killed and the NTSB steps in. My opinion only!!!!
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RnRCycloner
Active Member
Don, I do need to be careful, I already fractured my foot just doing a little yard work.. I think I need the Lazy Boy Chair from Ray LeTourneau's post.. Check it out, pretty cool...
<TABLE class=tborder id=post69000 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_69000>New Toy for RVer's
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Check out this link. Replacement recliner for your 5th wheel. I gotta get one of these. It can also be used to cruise the camp ground.
http://vimeo.com/1803735
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Ron
Heartland
Gary , I am not saying that Heartland should build there own frames, rather that they should do a more thorough inspection of them before they are put into production. If they find flaws in workmanship send them back to Lippert before they become an issue. If they are free of defects then maybe they need additional steel added to them . once again if they are under engineered, then fix them .
I for one think that to many manufacturers rely entirely to much on RV dealerships to fix problems that should have been delt with at the factory Heartland included. They offer the dealer networks 2 hours labor to fix a 6 hour job , and then wonder why customer satisfaction among dealers is so bad, its because they DON'T get Paid, would you work for free ?
I know there are lots of great dealers and I am not saying they are all perfect , however time after time customer complaints about dealers revolve around issues that should have taken care of by the factory .I am not talking about small things , but Frame issues ,electrical and plumbing are among the most common complaints, Don't they check these at all before they leave Elkart? Some will say that "dealer prep'" is supposed to take care of these things , I say NOT! Dealer prep should be just that , fill the propane , put the batteries in it, make sure its clean , tire pressure ,put on accessories , delivery from the factory and things of that nature[ not rebuilding a new or almost new trailer].
I want everyone to understand that I am not bashing Heartland[ I want one] but when any of us make a purchase like this it is for FUN, and that is what I want from the trailer I buy, not an agonizing project that causes me grief. Jim Beletti has done a wonderful job of helping owners and prospective owners with there concerns , and is an asset to the company ,and if the management would try to instill those values in there production line workforce maybe these things would be less frequent...Scott
Gary , I am not saying that Heartland should build there own frames, rather that they should do a more thorough inspection of them before they are put into production. If they find flaws in workmanship send them back to Lippert before they become an issue. If they are free of defects then maybe they need additional steel added to them . once again if they are under engineered, then fix them .
I for one think that to many manufacturers rely entirely to much on RV dealerships to fix problems that should have been delt with at the factory Heartland included. They offer the dealer networks 2 hours labor to fix a 6 hour job , and then wonder why customer satisfaction among dealers is so bad, its because they DON'T get Paid, would you work for free ?
I know there are lots of great dealers and I am not saying they are all perfect , however time after time customer complaints about dealers revolve around issues that should have taken care of by the factory .I am not talking about small things , but Frame issues ,electrical and plumbing are among the most common complaints, Don't they check these at all before they leave Elkart? Some will say that "dealer prep'" is supposed to take care of these things , I say NOT! Dealer prep should be just that , fill the propane , put the batteries in it, make sure its clean , tire pressure ,put on accessories , delivery from the factory and things of that nature[ not rebuilding a new or almost new trailer].
I want everyone to understand that I am not bashing Heartland[ I want one] but when any of us make a purchase like this it is for FUN, and that is what I want from the trailer I buy, not an agonizing project that causes me grief. Jim Beletti has done a wonderful job of helping owners and prospective owners with there concerns , and is an asset to the company ,and if the management would try to instill those values in there production line workforce maybe these things would be less frequent...Scott
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Well I'm pretty new here AND a prospective buyer of a 3055RL. After reading this post, along with some of the others it really makes me wonder if I should look elsewhere. Theres just no excuse for whats happening to these folks.
We all know that anything mechanical can have problem....BUT when the manufacturer and/or supplier basically blows you off to start with on something that may be as serious as a possible king pin failure....then that is totally unacceptable.
As Scott eluded to, if the frame structure around the king pin is flexing, bending, or whatever term you wish to use then I would think that both Lippert and Heartland would be very interested in finding out WHY??? I mean come on, do you put your head in the sand, cross your fingers and hope some retired couple or family doesn't get killed because of inferior design, material, workmanship or all three?
As was said about "Carriage" making thier own frames, I looked on their web site and they offer a 2 yr. bumper to bumper on the entire coach and a 5 year warranty on the frame!! Obviously they are proud of thier product and are willing to stand behind it. Doesn't look like Lippert feels the same about thier product.
This is Heartlands problem, THEY are the manufacturer, THEY need to fix this for the customer pronto at no charge and then they can deal with Lippert.
You better listen Heartland, get a factory rep down there and see whats wrong with this rig. These folks HAVE to go to the bank and borrow 6 grand to fix a possible major structural problem on one of your top of the line, 21 month old, 6000 mile units. I know I don't want to buy something and have to worry about it falling apart.
Goldenwings, please keep us apprised of how you are treated and the outcome of the inspection, you might want to get another opinion on the axles though..........Dave
We all know that anything mechanical can have problem....BUT when the manufacturer and/or supplier basically blows you off to start with on something that may be as serious as a possible king pin failure....then that is totally unacceptable.
As Scott eluded to, if the frame structure around the king pin is flexing, bending, or whatever term you wish to use then I would think that both Lippert and Heartland would be very interested in finding out WHY??? I mean come on, do you put your head in the sand, cross your fingers and hope some retired couple or family doesn't get killed because of inferior design, material, workmanship or all three?
As was said about "Carriage" making thier own frames, I looked on their web site and they offer a 2 yr. bumper to bumper on the entire coach and a 5 year warranty on the frame!! Obviously they are proud of thier product and are willing to stand behind it. Doesn't look like Lippert feels the same about thier product.
This is Heartlands problem, THEY are the manufacturer, THEY need to fix this for the customer pronto at no charge and then they can deal with Lippert.
You better listen Heartland, get a factory rep down there and see whats wrong with this rig. These folks HAVE to go to the bank and borrow 6 grand to fix a possible major structural problem on one of your top of the line, 21 month old, 6000 mile units. I know I don't want to buy something and have to worry about it falling apart.
Goldenwings, please keep us apprised of how you are treated and the outcome of the inspection, you might want to get another opinion on the axles though..........Dave
kakampers
Past Heartland Ambassador
Goldwingers...I'd really like to compare notes with you on your situation, as we've had similar issues with the pinbox area in the past, which have been resolved. We also had axles issues, although not quite as severe as your's apparently are. Maybe comparing our situations could shed some light on what's happening to your unit.
Have you had your unit weighed? If so, is it heavier on one side than the other? What kind of pin weight are you dealing with?..I know ours is quite heavy...about 3,900 lbs.
I truly hope you can get whatever is wrong with your unit repaired, with the least amount of cost and headache...If our particular situation can help with that...we're more than happy to share information.
Have you had your unit weighed? If so, is it heavier on one side than the other? What kind of pin weight are you dealing with?..I know ours is quite heavy...about 3,900 lbs.
I truly hope you can get whatever is wrong with your unit repaired, with the least amount of cost and headache...If our particular situation can help with that...we're more than happy to share information.
Website an asset and perhaps at times a mixed blessing
I just want to say that I believe the vast majority of people are very happy with their heartland rigs. My wife and I love our Bighorn 3670. This website has been such an asset. I would not hesitate to buy this product again. One of the side affects of having such a great website where we all share problems and fixes, responsiveness or lack thereof is the risk of sounding like Heartland products have more problems than other manufacturers. I don't think this is the case. I talk in person to other owners like myself that have had other brands and they overall think like I do, that their heartland rig is the best they have had. Yes some times things go wrong. I hope when they do Heartland steps up to the plate and I think they will. That is why I post good things I notice as well as little things that are not quite right. Like others I don't understand why anyone should ever have a severe frame problem. I mean without a good frame, the best rig is doomed. I hope Lippert understands that we, the people have our eye on them and they better care. I am thankful to all the great owners on this sight for the help they have been and hope maybe sometimes my two cents helps someone too. Keeping each other posted makes this a better product.
I just want to say that I believe the vast majority of people are very happy with their heartland rigs. My wife and I love our Bighorn 3670. This website has been such an asset. I would not hesitate to buy this product again. One of the side affects of having such a great website where we all share problems and fixes, responsiveness or lack thereof is the risk of sounding like Heartland products have more problems than other manufacturers. I don't think this is the case. I talk in person to other owners like myself that have had other brands and they overall think like I do, that their heartland rig is the best they have had. Yes some times things go wrong. I hope when they do Heartland steps up to the plate and I think they will. That is why I post good things I notice as well as little things that are not quite right. Like others I don't understand why anyone should ever have a severe frame problem. I mean without a good frame, the best rig is doomed. I hope Lippert understands that we, the people have our eye on them and they better care. I am thankful to all the great owners on this sight for the help they have been and hope maybe sometimes my two cents helps someone too. Keeping each other posted makes this a better product.
