AC over-running PLUS

[new2toyhauler]

My 2018 Cyclone, parked at the house in Florida, plugged into power. I normally set the main/central unit thermostat to 85 just to keep the unit from getting too hot. Tonight I went in to check on things and the unit was running, outside temp was below 70. I turned the thermostat to off and the unit continued to run. I then turned power to the Cyclone off from the house. I had some of the accent lights on in the camper but when I turned on the main ceiling lights in the living room they were VERY dim. I thought there maybe a problem with the 12 volt circuits and thought maybe it was something with the master power switch from the outside power source to house batteries so I tried to start the generator to see if that would reactivate the switch. The generator would not crank so I plugged the Camper back to the house and then the generator started fine. All of the 12 volt systems worked fine with the generator running so shut it down and it switched back to the external power source. All 12 volt systems continued to work. I did not try to start the AC again, anyone have any ideas what maybe going on, I plan to call Heartland in the morning to see what they think.

 

[danemayer]

The dim light and inability to crank the generator sounds like the batteries are depleted. When plugged in to shore power or on generator, the Power Converter converts the 120V AC into 12V DC. But when shut off, you're completely dependent on the battery charge.

There's a 12V DC mini-circuit breaker in between the Power Converter/Fuse Box and the battery. It's got a manual reset and may have tripped. In that case, the battery will not get charged and will gradually run down. The breaker is on a row of breakers near the battery. They're usually covered by a red rubber boot. I've attached a couple of pictures that will help you find the one with the reset button.

Our owner-written 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic guide can help you run down other 12V problems, and our Electrical user guide may assist in running down broader problems.

Not sure what to make of the A/C failing to shut off.

 

[new2toyhauler]

Thanks danemayer, I also thought about the batteries and will certainly look for the breaker you mentioned in the morning and that could certainly be why the gen would not start but I really think the problem is deeper, assuming that the thermostat runs on the 12 volt system and that is why it was not signaling the AC unit to shut down even though the camper was on shore power. So with that I don't think the batteries are an issue but something in the 12 volt system is a problem, all of the 110 volt systems were working fine before I noticed the problem including the airconditioner that was running and some of the lights were working so the batteries were not totally dead. when I tried to start the gen at the unit the light on the switch flashed a signal of 4 lights....? guessing that there is power in the batteries but not enough to crank the gen.?

 

[mlpeloquin]

If you switch the AC power on and off there should not be a problem, but if you just plug and unplug live, that little breaker will trip some of the time. So check the breaker. I found it to be a big pain in the backside until I found that just plugging and unplugging can trip it. Only once did a park breaker trip it. I always check it after turning power on and off. Five seconds to make sure is now a routine for me.

 

[danemayer]

When on shore power or generator is running, the 12V DC supply comes from either the Power Converter, or the battery, or both. When you have 120V AC, all of your 12V stuff will run just fine even with the battery removed. Then you unplug, and the 12V stuff fails.

One mitigating factor with respect to the 12V mini-circuit breaker: if when you unplugged shore power, you still had some 12V DC, it would have been coming from the battery, meaning the breaker wasn't tripped. In that case, there would be some other explanation for a depleted battery.

The auto-levelup system has a voltage mode. With shore power disconnected and generator off, cycle that around to show the voltage from the battery. If less than 12.5V, the battery is low. If less than around 11.8V, I doubt you'd have enough juice to crank the generator at all.

With shore power or generator, the voltage on the levelup display should be 13.2 - 13.6V DC.

 

[new2toyhauler]

Thanks mlpeloquin , your post certainly shows the need to check the breaker as the last park we were in there was no way to shut off the power they provided so had to plug in live and you described that to be an issue, tomorrow in daylight will certainly find this magic breaker...

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Will add that to my list of to-dos tomorrow, thanks again...

 

[wdk450]

Thanks mlpeloquin , your post certainly shows the need to check the breaker as the last park we were in there was no way to shut off the power they provided so had to plug in live and you described that to be an issue, tomorrow in daylight will certainly find this magic breaker...

- - - Updated - - -

Will add that to my list of to-dos tomorrow, thanks again...

You CAN plug in to a live shore power without your trailer AC power being immediately energized by TURNING OFF YOUR INSIDE MAINS CIRCUIT BREAKERS BEFORE​ CONNECTING TO THAT LIVE SHORE POWER, then turning ON those mains.

 

[new2toyhauler]

Today's update so far. First had no problem finding the breakers but none of them have a reset button? could it be that the new unit has an auto-reset rather than a manual reset? then for danemayer's information about battery voltage shown on the level-up screen I did see that and it showed well North of 13 volts so I powered off the shore power and the voltage dropped to 12+ volts so I thought I would start the gen as a test, generator fired up normally. Next thought I would run the gen for a while and I would test the AC in the Living area that would not shut off last night. I turned the thermostat on and unit started and is cooling, thought would leave run for a bit then shut off, went out to close access to batteries/generator door and on way back to go in stopped to look at the level up and see what it was reporting as voltage----- no voltage showing, just the little battery icon but no voltage. I wonder if there is something with the thermostat that tripped the breaker again? Will continue testing and anxious to here what everyone thinks.

 

[danemayer]

The level up panel should have been showing voltage from the battery even if the breaker did trip.

I'm wondering if you have a grounding problem. Perhaps a loose wire or loose terminal lug on one of the wires.

Check for tight connections at the buss bar that has all the breakers. Check the battery connections are clean and tight. You may need to trace the wire from the negative battery terminal to the frame and inspect that ground connection. The fuse box inside has a ground buss that also needs a connection to frame ground. And the Power Converter has a ground wire that also has to go to frame ground.

If you have a volt meter, it would help to get a battery reading between positive and negative terminals while the level up display fails to show voltage.

 

[new2toyhauler]

The camper is plugged into shore line, I put a meter on the battery posts that exit the battery box with 2 12volt batteries and get 14.1 volts. The battery ground is made in the electrical area in the front access area, ground attached to metal enclosure, I get 14.1 volts going from positive battery wire to that grounding location also. The leveling system screen does not show any voltage reading!

 

[jbeletti]

Make sure any DC power switch in the battery area is switched on.


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[danemayer]

If the level up display is completely blank and the controls are non-functional, it may be a blown inline fuse (circled in the center of this wiring diagram).

If everything on the level up is working except the voltage display, that's a bit of a mystery. More so given the other problems.

Reading 14.1V at the battery while plugged into shore power indicates the Power Converter is in a rapid charge mode. That suggests you may have a battery problem. Might be time to take the batteries to an auto parts store or service location and have them load tested.

 

[new2toyhauler]

Thanks danemayer but the other functions on the level up system appear to be fine, I did not try to re-level the camper but all of the other functions work fine and under major changes in power source the voltage does appear next to the battery icon on the level up panel. If I kill the shore power and check the level-up system the voltage appears and shows 12-13 volt area, then if I start gen the system shows an increase to 14 volt which I would expect but after running for a while the voltage reading goes away, all other parts of the screen are there. If I shut down the gen the voltage appears again for a relatively short period and then if I turn on shore power the voltage displays again for a short while.
The AC has worked correctly all day regardless of the new issues that I am working, the temp satisfies and the unit shuts down or if I turn off the unit by the thermostat after its normal process it is shutting down as it should.
I would hope that I do not have a battery issue as they are only about a year old, always been on shore power to keep topped off, and I regularly check and maintain the water level in the cells?

 

[new2toyhauler]

Short update, nothing really new, AC continues to work correctly.contactef LCI after normal hours yesterday so no help, called today again about system not reporting voltage, tech was not sure but said would investigate and call back, did call had me remove unit from Mount to get model number them said he would have to send to engineering to see if they know why I am not seeing battery voltage as LL of the time!