Power cord reel malfunction

Doubleringer · Feb 18, 2015

TDI Power cord reel on 2011 Bighorn. The contact for the electrical ground which is on the inside of the rotating drum, malfunctioned, allowed 220 volts to enter one side of my RV ( Lucky just one side). Took out the converter, on board vacuum, several appliances and allowed boiling of the 12volt battery. There is very limited visual to see the condition of the electrical components of the power reel. Everything is concealed and cannot be checked without removing the side panel and the power reel. Lucky, could have caused a fire, while we were not at our RV.

danemayer · Feb 18, 2015

Hi Doubleringer,

I'm not sure how the reel is set up, but what you're describing might be caused by an open neutral. How did you determine that the problem is in the cord reel?

boatto5er · Feb 18, 2015

The TDI must be a 3rd party add on. My factory installed reel is strictly 12v DC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cookie · Feb 18, 2015

Gus, the motor that drives the reel is 12 volts.
The cord and contacts in the system carry the 120.

Peace
Dave

boatto5er · Feb 19, 2015

That doesn't seem right to me. I can operate the reel without being connected to AC power. That would indicate to me that the system is wired for 12V DC operation all the way back to the fuse panel/battery. Why would there be any need for the wiring to carry 120VC?

cookie · Feb 19, 2015

I guess we are thinking in two different directions Gus.
The OP has no problem with the 12 volt operation of the reel.
When he plugged into shore power his 120 volt neutral leg was open due to the failure of the contacts in the reel.
When that happened his system, through backfeed in the trailer, was then 220 volts.

I know a guy that recently had a failure of the contactor in his Progressive EMS. Neutral contact failed. Same end result. Loss of electronics inside.

Peace
Dave

boatto5er · Feb 19, 2015

The light finally came on. It wasn't the reel motor, it was the connection from the cable on the reel. OK, I've embedded my palm on my forehead.

wdk450 · Feb 19, 2015

cookie said:
I know a guy that recently had a failure of the contactor in his Progressive EMS. Neutral contact failed. Same end result. Loss of electronics inside.

Peace
Dave

This report of a failure of an EMS contactor (main power pass-thru relay), and the damage it caused, is more motivation for me to follow my arrival/departure procedure of turning off the inside mains breakers any time BEFORE shore power is connected or disconnected, to pretty much eliminate electrical load caused arcing on the EMS contactor contacts.

I am going to add to this routine a yearly crawl into the storage utilities access space to remove the cover on the EMS (with shore power disconnected), dress the contacts with a contact burnisher tool (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Jukeb...491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2ddd5fcb ) , and spray the contacts with Cramolyn DeOxIt contact cleaner/restorer ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-Techno...842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e94249efa ) . The burnisher tool is a VERY fine grit file (like emery cloth), which can easily be ruined by excessive force. For badly pitted/burned contacts, a flat Swiss file ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Am-Swiss-Si...332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7b8ad94 ) is a better tool to start with. Unfortunately, the miniature Swiss files are not flexible like the contact burnisher, and the relay may have to be removed from the EMS box to file on the contacts with the Swiss file.

bigdob24 · Feb 19, 2015

I have the EMS also.
Is The preventative maintenance you plan on doing recommended by the manufacturer ?
Mine will be fun to get to;-)

porthole · Feb 19, 2015

This has to be the first I have heard of a TDI reel failing. I would call TDI directly, they are in Florida.

Doubleringer · Feb 20, 2015

danemayer said:
Hi Doubleringer,

I'm not sure how the reel is set up, but what you're describing might be caused by an open neutral. How did you determine that the problem is in the cord reel?

Currently I am using my third Progressive EMS (Electrical Management System). Previous two EMS allowed moisture to enter the box. Each time Progressive replaced their EMS. I first checked my EMS, it was ok. The electrical issue had to be after the EMS. Checked my power cord it was ok. The way things were damaged indicated a problem with the electrical neutral where the power entered my RV. Checked continuity between connections on the reel and there was a problem. Very BIG issue to remove power cord reel from RV. The problem could then be observed on the interior of the rotating drum. New power cord and reel from Hartland (( $931) From warehouse ($700) New plug on my cord and new plugin on outside of RV ($80). Eliminated power cord reel.

Doubleringer · Feb 20, 2015

I did e-mail TDI about the issue with my power cord reel. Have not heard from TDI. A Hartland rep did call me about my problem, nothing else.

branson4020 · Feb 20, 2015

I use a hardwired SurgeGuard. Never had a problem with it and no annual maintenance required, or possible. Its pretty well sealed.

Doubleringer · Feb 20, 2015

wdk450 said:
This report of a failure of an EMS contactor (main power pass-thru relay), and the damage it caused, is more motivation for me to follow my arrival/departure procedure of turning off the inside mains breakers any time BEFORE shore power is connected or disconnected, to pretty much eliminate electrical load caused arcing on the EMS contactor contacts.

I am going to add to this routine a yearly crawl into the storage utilities access space to remove the cover on the EMS (with shore power disconnected), dress the contacts with a contact burnisher tool (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Jukeb...491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2ddd5fcb ) , and spray the contacts with Cramolyn DeOxIt contact cleaner/restorer ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-Techno...842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e94249efa ) . The burnisher tool is a VERY fine grit file (like emery cloth), which can easily be ruined by excessive force. For badly pitted/burned contacts, a flat Swiss file ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Am-Swiss-Si...332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7b8ad94 ) is a better tool to start with. Unfortunately, the miniature Swiss files are not flexible like the contact burnisher, and the relay may have to be removed from the EMS box to file on the contacts with the Swiss file.

Per Progressive '" Our units are sealed at the factory against moisture. Any disassembly will void the Warranty."

pegmikef · Feb 20, 2015

Doubleringer said:
Per Progressive '" Our units are sealed at the factory against moisture. Any disassembly will void the Warranty."

. . . and that warranty is a life time warranty or as long as you own the unit. I have already used the warranty once because of moisture penetration (mine is the exterior model that connects to the pedestal).

wdk450 · Feb 20, 2015

Progressive had ME open the top and switch out the PC logic board on my EMS last summer. Maybe I got "Special Treatment" after telling them I am a retired electronics tech of 35 years working experience. Has anyone else swapped out their own PC board?

porthole · Feb 20, 2015

wdk450 said:
Progressive had ME open the top and switch out the PC logic board on my EMS last summer. Maybe I got "Special Treatment" after telling them I am a retired electronics tech of 35 years working experience. Has anyone else swapped out their own PC board?

Yes I have.

Hard wired units don't have the "do not open" limitation. Exterior models are sealed against the weather.

AAdams · Feb 21, 2015

I would like to understand this better, so I may sound a little stupid about this, but I am not an electrician and know only a little about electricity and the resulting failures. If the failure

was a open neutral at the real, is that where the 220vac starts? I am asking because if so then that would give a better argument to have the EMS hardwired directly behind the breaker

panel to eliminate this as a possibility. A portable EMS would still be seeing 110vac at the pedestal because the failure hasn't occurred when it is looking at it. Is this correct?

porthole · Feb 21, 2015

The hardwired EMS over the portable unit has four distinct advantages.

1) Hardwired before the panel it protects the coach from all incoming sources, e.g. shore power or genset (inverters excluded).
2) It is always online, even on the days one might be a bit to lazy and not hook up the portable for that "quick stop".
3) With the unit's display or remote display, the status can be checked from the inside of the coach during severe weather.
4) Buried inside a wall somewhere means it is not prone to be "borrowed" by another RV'er.

One distinct disadvantage - it takes a bit of work to install.

wdk450 · Feb 21, 2015

AA Adams
Wherever the open (like a disconnected wire) happens in the 50 amp, 2 - 120 volt phases (240 volts BETWEEN these 2 phases) shore power supply circuit, is "where the 220 vac (on the RV 120 volt circuits) starts". Having the EMS wired behind (upstream) of the breaker panel gives it the best chance of catching ALL power problems. Over the years these problems have mainly been associated with RV park power pedestal wiring problems. See: http://www.myrv.us/electric/index.htm and click on "Open Neutral".

Your analysis that "A portable EMS would still be seeing 110vac at the pedestal because the failure hasn't occurred when it is looking at it" is entirely correct. The portable pedestal-located EMS is upstream of the open neutral malfunction.

The Progressive HW-50C EMS is not supposed to allow power to pass through it in the case of an open neutral condition. See the "Open Neutral" section on this page: http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm .

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