Axle Hanger Falling off and welds cracking

[NYSUPstater]

Tho OP is attempting to get this done and done right thru HL, Lippert and all, if at the very least, I agree as well that getting the rig to a HD truck/trailer shop is going to be the best bet.There is a shop (name escapes me) off x12 past the Pilot off freebie 90 that fixes trailers (could be a reefer shop). Call Ryder (service dep't) in Schnectady for such shops after explaining your situation. If this has been documented within a yr or so of purchase of weld failures, then yes HL should be stepping up to the plate. Last resort, could seek a lawyers advice.

 

[BigGuy82]

This may or may not help. When I tried to install the factory hitch receiver (for the bike rack) on the back of my Bighorn, it wouldn't fit the factory brackets that were welded to the frame. I took it to the dealer and they were required by Lippert to make a lot of measurements. I asked the dealer what happens if the frame was somehow bent or out of alignment and the service manager (a friend of mine) told me that Lippert would send a technician to the dealership to repair the problem. Turns out that one of the tabs for the hitch was welded a tad off and the dealer was authorized to do the repair. However, the point is that Lippert has the ability to send a tech to you if the frame is somehow not right. Since your frame had axles that were welded 3' off from where they should have been that had to be rewelded and then failed again, I would think that Lippert needs to get a tech on a plane. In addition to just repairing the problem, I question the frame integrity and if there needs to be significant reinforcement done to the frame itself. No matter who finally does the repair, I would think that Lippert needs to give it their blessing before it hits the road again, just to be extra cautious.

I feel for you. Good luck.

 

[212Pilot]

I had a similar problem but my Cyclone was still under warrantee. Heartland referred it to Lippert who took good care of us with new parts and even paid to replace tires that were damaged. The professional welder who put on the new hangers told me the steel used in the frame was not that good it had a lot of contaminates in it and it was hard to weld.

 

[rdufek]

I had a similar problem but my Cyclone was still under warrantee. Heartland referred it to Lippert who took good care of us with new parts and even paid to replace tires that were damaged. The professional welder who put on the new hangers told me the steel used in the frame was not that good it had a lot of contaminates in it and it was hard to weld.

Glad Lippert took care of you. Have you thought of reinforcing the frame?

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This may or may not help. When I tried to install the factory hitch receiver (for the bike rack) on the back of my Bighorn, it wouldn't fit the factory brackets that were welded to the frame. I took it to the dealer and they were required by Lippert to make a lot of measurements. I asked the dealer what happens if the frame was somehow bent or out of alignment and the service manager (a friend of mine) told me that Lippert would send a technician to the dealership to repair the problem. Turns out that one of the tabs for the hitch was welded a tad off and the dealer was authorized to do the repair. However, the point is that Lippert has the ability to send a tech to you if the frame is somehow not right. Since your frame had axles that were welded 3' off from where they should have been that had to be rewelded and then failed again, I would think that Lippert needs to get a tech on a plane. In addition to just repairing the problem, I question the frame integrity and if there needs to be significant reinforcement done to the frame itself. No matter who finally does the repair, I would think that Lippert needs to give it their blessing before it hits the road again, just to be extra cautious.

I feel for you. Good luck.

I did reach out to Lippert but unfortunately they were not interested in my situation. I am planning on reinforcing the frame/axle hangers in hopes of preventing this situation again.

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Tho OP is attempting to get this done and done right thru HL, Lippert and all, if at the very least, I agree as well that getting the rig to a HD truck/trailer shop is going to be the best bet.There is a shop (name escapes me) off x12 past the Pilot off freebie 90 that fixes trailers (could be a reefer shop). Call Ryder (service dep't) in Schnectady for such shops after explaining your situation. If this has been documented within a yr or so of purchase of weld failures, then yes HL should be stepping up to the plate. Last resort, could seek a lawyers advice.

Unfortunately this is not within the 1st year of ownership the welds breaking but the result is certainly related to the recall which occurred 2 months after I took possession of my unit brand new. We love our floor plan, we just want our unit fixed properly so that we don't keep snapping off the axle hanger. It should be fixed December 11th when it goes in the shop. Was hoping Heartland and/or Lippert would step up some being this is a direct result of the recall.

 

[CoveredWagon]

We had a similar problem with a mobile home we owned when I was in the service. Living on military pay didn’t afford us enough money to have anything fixed. I contacted ****, who had also been in the military and understood, who made a few phone calls and sent a couple letters on his letterhead. Problem solved. Recall, incorrectly repaired didn’t absolve the manufacturer of the correction.

 

[BigGuy82]

Recall, incorrectly repaired didn’t absolve the manufacturer of the correction.

Exactly what I was thinking. They made it incorrectly. You brought it to their attention within warranty. They repaired it within warranty. Their repair was faulty.

I'm probably wrong somehow, but in my book, that makes them responsible for repairs if the warranty repair failed.

Honestly, this entire tread is upsetting on many levels. The previous comment on "inferior steel", the lack of follow-up on a faulty repair, the initial problem of welding an axle THREE FEET (on multiple units) forward of the correct spot, the dealer not catching the fact that this coach was somehow "wrong" (really, an axle 3' out of position wasn't even noticed or questioned?), the total lack of quality control, the sheer danger of a coach like this leaving the factory in the first place (really, who was asleep at the switch?), the cost of dealing with a problem that was caused by sloppy workmanship through no fault of the owner, the "washing of hands" by two prominent RV manufacturers (Lippert and Heartland) and finally the owner who is stuck between a rock and a hard place through absolutely no fault of his own. All this stuff really makes me wonder why we tolerate this stuff.

Knock on wood, my coach is in great shape but it did require a lot of work on my part. Nevertheless, I'm happy. But, incidents like this are very upsetting because it could happen to any one of us and nobody but us (the customers) seems to care much.

 

[danemayer]

Let me throw in a few thoughts.

• Iircc, this axle location problem occurred on a new floor plan.
• Lippert welds the hangers onto the frame before Heartland gets the frame.
• Heartland manufacturing attaches the axles to the hangers with the frame assembly turned upside down. This is very early in the build and there's no obvious reason anyone would question placement of the hangers on a new floor plan. Now if it happened on an existing, popular floor plan, someone might ask why it was different. But probably not on a new floor plan.
• Trailers moved from the manufacturing building to storage are moved by a tractor with hitch attachment to pull the trailer. They're not typically towed behind a light truck. So no one would notice anything unusual.
• The first person who might have noticed something unusual would likely be the transport driver, and then only if the trailer were towing in a strange way - porpoising for example. But as a 3rd party representing neither manufacturer nor dealer, it's not clear what a driver would do if he thought something odd.
• Dealers usually move trailers on their lot using a forklift with hitch attachment, or something similar. Again, no reason to think anything odd.
• A dealer getting a new floor plan wouldn't look at the axle placement and automatically conclude there's a problem; even if it looked different from other models.

The recall goes to Heartland as the manufacturer. But we don't know the cause of the error in axle placement. It could have been a Heartland design error - but that seems very unlikely as a design change would likely stop production completely for a long time while the entire design was re-evaluated and tested. More likely, either the wrong spec was sent to Lippert on how to build the frame, or Lippert made an error and either supplied the wrong frames, or build them wrong. We will probably never know whether this was a Heartland error, or a Lippert error.

Next comes the question of who is responsible for bad welding in the field. In general, I think Heartland and Lippert expect a repair shop to stand behind their work. If the shop gets paid to fix the problem, don't they have an obligation to do it correctly?

Should Heartland be responsible for the dealer doing a bad job? Consider the analogous situation, where a dealer fixes a run of the mill manufacturing defect, and pays the dealer. If the repair doesn't stick, the expectation is that the dealer will try again without getting paid a 2nd time. What happens if the dealer makes a mistake during the repair and causes consequential damages due to his poor repair? Is Heartland responsible for the consequential damages caused by the dealer? Nope. Yet the original problem was due to a manufacturing defect, just as in the axle placement situation. Why is this any different?

The problem as I see it is the dealer appears to be ducking responsibility for the bad weld.

 

[BigGuy82]

Let me throw in a few thoughts.

• Iircc, this axle location problem occurred on a new floor plan.
• Lippert welds the hangers onto the frame before Heartland gets the frame.
• Heartland manufacturing attaches the axles to the hangers with the frame assembly turned upside down. This is very early in the build and there's no obvious reason anyone would question placement of the hangers on a new floor plan. Now if it happened on an existing, popular floor plan, someone might ask why it was different. But probably not on a new floor plan.
• Trailers moved from the manufacturing building to storage are moved by a tractor with hitch attachment to pull the trailer. They're not typically towed behind a light truck. So no one would notice anything unusual.
• The first person who might have noticed something unusual would likely be the transport driver, and then only if the trailer were towing in a strange way - porpoising for example. But as a 3rd party representing neither manufacturer nor dealer, it's not clear what a driver would do if he thought something odd.
• Dealers usually move trailers on their lot using a forklift with hitch attachment, or something similar. Again, no reason to think anything odd.
• A dealer getting a new floor plan wouldn't look at the axle placement and automatically conclude there's a problem; even if it looked different from other models.

The recall goes to Heartland as the manufacturer. But we don't know the cause of the error in axle placement. It could have been a Heartland design error - but that seems very unlikely as a design change would likely stop production completely for a long time while the entire design was re-evaluated and tested. More likely, either the wrong spec was sent to Lippert on how to build the frame, or Lippert made an error and either supplied the wrong frames, or build them wrong. We will probably never know whether this was a Heartland error, or a Lippert error.

Next comes the question of who is responsible for bad welding in the field. In general, I think Heartland and Lippert expect a repair shop to stand behind their work. If the shop gets paid to fix the problem, don't they have an obligation to do it correctly?

Should Heartland be responsible for the dealer doing a bad job? Consider the analogous situation, where a dealer fixes a run of the mill manufacturing defect, and pays the dealer. If the repair doesn't stick, the expectation is that the dealer will try again without getting paid a 2nd time. What happens if the dealer makes a mistake during the repair and causes consequential damages due to his poor repair? Is Heartland responsible for the consequential damages caused by the dealer? Nope. Yet the original problem was due to a manufacturing defect, just as in the axle placement situation. Why is this any different?

The problem as I see it is the dealer appears to be ducking responsibility for the bad weld.

I don't disagree with your analysis. However, in my mind, Heartland should have caught this - new floor plan or not. How do you build multiple copies of a new coach without knowing that something is wrong? A part that is misaligned by 3 FEET isn't just off by an unnoticeable tad. After all, it's Heartland who designed the thing and who wrote the specs for Lippert. Regarding the improper repair, I suppose that could be argued forever, but again, just my opinion, Heartland approved the vendor who repaired the coach under the Heartland warranty and yes, they should expect that company to stand behind their work. However, that should be between Heartland and their vendor. How is this somehow the responsibility of the customer to handle? They didn't accept the defective frame from Lippert, they didn't miss the out of spec condition, they did nothing to cause the part to fail, they didn't approve the vendor and they are not the technical experts who approved the repair. Would you be able to spot a bad weld (assuming that you're not a welder by training)? This whole deal should be between Heartland, Lippert and the dealer, but it seems the customer bears the brunt of their mistakes. Not right by any standard.

 

[rhodies1]

I don't disagree with your analysis. However, in my mind, Heartland should have caught this - new floor plan or not. How do you build multiple copies of a new coach without knowing that something is wrong? A part that is misaligned by 3 FEET isn't just off by an unnoticeable tad. After all, it's Heartland who designed the thing and who wrote the specs for Lippert. Regarding the improper repair, I suppose that could be argued forever, but again, just my opinion, Heartland approved the vendor who repaired the coach under the Heartland warranty and yes, they should expect that company to stand behind their work. However, that should be between Heartland and their vendor. How is this somehow the responsibility of the customer to handle? They didn't accept the defective frame from Lippert, they didn't miss the out of spec condition, they did nothing to cause the part to fail, they didn't approve the vendor and they are not the technical experts who approved the repair. Would you be able to spot a bad weld (assuming that you're not a welder by training)? This whole deal should be between Heartland, Lippert and the dealer, but it seems the customer bears the brunt of their mistakes. Not right by any standard.

I agree with you BigGuy82,it’s time to stop giving manufactures of RVs the an easy out.If this issue were an automobile, the govt would be on them like flies on doo doo.The RV industry continues to fly under the radar of legal action to date but their day is coming..
People continue to stick up for the RV industry when they continue to have issues and the industry just wash their hands,if this unit or the other 124 that are out their on the roads causes an accident and someone gets killed ,and legal action takes place then the RV industry may wake up.Right now they are so busy and profitable they don’t give a dam.

 

[CoveredWagon]

If Lippert built it wrong they are responsible. If Heartland designed it wrong they are responsible. If it’s the welders fault, whoever ordered the welder, Lippert or Heartland then they are responsible

 

[212Pilot]

Glad Lippert took care of you. Have you thought of reinforcing the frame?

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I did reach out to Lippert but unfortunately they were not interested in my situation. I am planning on reinforcing the frame/axle hangers in hopes of preventing this situation again.

- - - Updated - - -



Unfortunately this is not within the 1st year of ownership the welds breaking but the result is certainly related to the recall which occurred 2 months after I took possession of my unit brand new. We love our floor plan, we just want our unit fixed properly so that we don't keep snapping off the axle hanger. It should be fixed December 11th when it goes in the shop. Was hoping Heartland and/or Lippert would step up some being this is a direct result of the recall.

I installed JoyRyder Shocks and MorRyde HD Shackles and Wet Bolt Kit. I also am planning on welding 2" Square tubing between each of the spring hangers across the coach to reinforce the suspension.

 

[porthole]

The problem as I see it is the dealer appears to be ducking responsibility for the bad weld.

Would you be of the same opinion if you were the one to be broken down several times with a trailer that should never have been built the way it was in the first place?

The onus is on the manufacturer with this problem. More then one person screwed up here and as a result the user is getting a raw deal. The manufacturer has the backing to make it right.

Granted, it appears the original recall repair welding is suspect. But, had it been built correctly in the first place this thread would probably never have taken place.

 

[danemayer]

Would you be of the same opinion if you were the one to be broken down several times with a trailer that should never have been built the way it was in the first place?

The onus is on the manufacturer with this problem. More then one person screwed up here and as a result the user is getting a raw deal. The manufacturer has the backing to make it right.

Granted, it appears the original recall repair welding is suspect. But, had it been built correctly in the first place this thread would probably never have taken place.

It's helpful to read the warranty rather than assume you get to write your own version.

The retail purchaser shall not be entitled to recover from Heartland any consequential or incidental damages resulting from any defect in the unit. The exclusion of consequential and incidental damages shall be deemed independent of, and shall survive, any failure of the essential purpose of any limited remedy.

Duane, if your dealer had run a forklift into your front cap while performing recall or warranty work, would you expect Heartland to be responsible for that damage because had it been built correctly in the first place, it wouldn't have been at the dealer? If your trailer was stolen off the dealer lot while there for recall or warranty work, would you expect Heartland to give you a new trailer because there would have been no theft except for the manufacturing error? If your water pump failed and the dealer screwed up the replacement in a way that caused a leak that rotted the basement floor, would you expect Shurflo to pay for a new floor because it started with their defect, or does Heartland pay because they installed the pump and sold the trailer, or does the dealer pay because they made the mistake that actually caused the current problem?

I'm going with responsibility going to the party that did the work that actually failed.

 

[Dawnnira]

How about a funny interlude

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[porthole]

It's helpful to read the warranty rather than assume you get to write your own version.

if your dealer had run a forklift into your front cap while performing recall or warranty work, would you expect Heartland to be responsible for that damage because had it been built correctly in the first place, it wouldn't have been at the dealer?

If your trailer was stolen off the dealer lot while there for recall or warranty work, would you expect Heartland to give you a new trailer because there would have been no theft except for the manufacturing error?

If your water pump failed and the dealer screwed up the replacement in a way that caused a leak that rotted the basement floor, would you expect Shurflo to pay for a new floor because it started with their defect, or does Heartland pay because they installed the pump and sold the trailer, or does the dealer pay because they made the mistake that actually caused the current problem?

I'm going with responsibility going to the party that did the work that actually failed.

Nonsensical drivel - all of the above.

The first sentence above:
Once HL contacted the NTHSA about the recall and it became a NHTSA recall - warranty coverage doesn't apply.

In the words of a NHTSA supervisor overseeing a frame recall we were performing on a high mileage, out of warranty Dodge Van years ago, he was queried how long are recalls in play - his answer "Recalls are forever"

The next 3 comments - have nothing to do with this thread, and my response to the above I will leave off, as it has nothing to do with this thread, only how what you penned is nonsensical drivel.

 

[porthole]

Bob & Valerie should not have the heartache and aggravation this recall is causing them.

Granted the first dealer that did the repair screwed up, so did HL by not assuring the dealer had the capability and skills necessary to make the repair.

On my piece above with the Dodge van, that recall was a really serious safety issue hence the reason we had a NHTSA rep assuring that we were actually capable of properly performing the recall, which involved frame welding.

According to the NHTSA recall notice involving the Dufek's Bighorn, the first several complaints had the RV's (Big Country's, Bighorns and Charleston's) sent back to HL for inspection. After that it was determined that 130 RV's were affected with a possible 100 actually having the defect.

As of the latest available online NHTSA report (July, 2016), 130 of 131 units were remedied. Although that report doesn't specify that hangers were relocated or just that the RV was inspected and deemed ok.



All manufacturers have a 'good will' of some sort, and it should be utilized here to make right by the consumer. It is a minimal cost compared to the potential losses.


https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HEARTLAND/BIG%2520HORN#recalls

Bob, did you receive the letter from HL similar to the one below?

Bottom full paragraph gives instructions from Heartland as to how to proceed.
I'm sure the NHTSA would like to know there are potential inferior repairs being performed that could be an even bigger safety issue than just having improper frame loading.

 

[rdufek]

Bob & Valerie should not have the heartache and aggravation this recall is causing them.

Granted the first dealer that did the repair screwed up, so did HL by not assuring the dealer had the capability and skills necessary to make the repair.

On my piece above with the Dodge van, that recall was a really serious safety issue hence the reason we had a NHTSA rep assuring that we were actually capable of properly performing the recall, which involved frame welding.

According to the NHTSA recall notice involving the Dufek's Bighorn, the first several complaints had the RV's (Big Country's, Bighorns and Charleston's) sent back to HL for inspection. After that it was determined that 130 RV's were affected with a possible 100 actually having the defect.

As of the latest available online NHTSA report (July, 2016), 130 of 131 units were remedied. Although that report doesn't specify that hangers were relocated or just that the RV was inspected and deemed ok.



All manufacturers have a 'good will' of some sort, and it should be utilized here to make right by the consumer. It is a minimal cost compared to the potential losses.


https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HEARTLAND/BIG%2520HORN#recalls

Bob, did you receive the letter from HL similar to the one below?

Bottom full paragraph gives instructions from Heartland as to how to proceed.
I'm sure the NHTSA would like to know there are potential inferior repairs being performed that could be an even bigger safety issue than just having improper frame loading.

Thank You Duane, I did receive a letter similar to that one at the time of the recall.

In the end here, that's all I'm looking for, some assistance, guidance and to be able to enjoy my unit. It should not take a lot to get these hangers properly attached, reinforce the area of the frame which has now been weakened, and then to further stabilize and reinforce the axle hangers.

 

[rdufek]

****** Update ******

Well the trailer is in the shop and here is what was found after dropping the chloroplast






yes that is a crossmember which was attached with a tear drop of a weld on both sides where the new axle hangers were attached during the recall. I'm not a welder but there is no way that tack was proper for a crossmember to stabilize the I-beams.

 

[travelin2]

Well that’s not good!!!


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[BigGuy82]

You’re a very nice guy. Me? I’d be looking for a new coach. As long as you’ve been at this, I’m thinking drastic solutions for a huge problem. Good luck.


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