Landmark 365 - Toyhauler... Is there any interest?

[klindgren]

I would not want to give up the living space for a garage / large storage area. My plan is to buy the Swivel Wheel trailer to haul my motorcycle. I realize the motorcycle will be exposed to the elements, however, it is no different than riding in the rain. I think all 5th wheels should include a nice, heavy duty class 3 hitch for connecting a trailer or even a bike rack. The one Heartland offers is not a viable solution even for transporting bicycles.

Clay, I was looking at the Idaho Tote as a possibility and while I like the trailer configuration I balked at the quoted $8,000+ price tag. That included the hitch and all but did not include the labor to have the hitch welded to my Landmark. Technically I'd be illegal in Virginia (you can't have tandem trailers without a special CDL license), but I've know several folks who pull tandem and have never received a ticket.

 

[Lou_and_Bette]

Kevin,

I think Lou meant the Cruiser Lift on back of a coach is only good for motorcycles. I think that's what they are designed for.

Jim, you are correct, wouldn't be wide enough for golf cart...Kevin, didn't know weight of cart, so platform could be designed to hold cart and then be raised, but does that leave out battery carts?

 

[porthole]

Lou, NH and DRV will move the axle location based on the customer needs. So if you were to plan on installing a cruiserlift, that would be taken into consideration when the trailer is built and the axles moved rearward..
Both of those brands can be built as semi custom, which you pay for.

Keith, Virginia considers that a tandem trailer and not an extension of the trailer, which is really what is? Essentialy a tag axle

 

[porthole]

The coach is only 8' wide with sidewalls. So the interior width is less than 8'.

Most 5th wheel toy haulers on the market are 8.5' wide for a reason.
It is almost the maximum allowed and gives room to actually able to load the typical toys in the garage.
5" wider doesn't sound like much until you load a cart and dresser into the garage.

Unless you eliminate things like the Happijac bunks system, which takes up - about 5"

 

[porthole]

Whatever we build would be multi-purpose.
It's NOT going to have a fuel center and other items that would make it like a traditional toy hauler.
It would be more like a bonus room that could be used for a golf cart, motorcycle, office, den, bunk room or man cave. Basically a space you could make work for whatever your needs are. Toy haulers aren't exploding right now because 30 something's are buying them - they are being bought by Boomers in many cases because of ther versatility. In my opinion anyway.... Remember this is just an idea.

Multi purpose?
NOT going to have a fuel center
Just an idea?

Since the thread title is toy hauler interest most of my opinions are based on toy haulers, not bonus rooms. A 4x8 bonus room with exterior door could be a nice option for those with pets, especially wet dogs though.

A bonus room is just that, a semi configurable room with maybe an extra side door. Not a toy hauler.

A toy hauler is a RV with a garage - with a ramp.

I think we have done a fairly decent job making our garage look like an extension of the trailer when the toys are out. Same cabinet type added, wall treatment, window coverings etc.
But, putting the carpet down after the toys were out was a chore. The carpet went in attic before we even took our first trip. Storing and maneuvering a rolled 8' wide carpet, 10' feet long is not without it's drawbacks when traveling.

And no matter how nice you make the garage - it is still a garage, especially when you get to camp and maybe are only staying for one night, so nothing comes out. Or it rains for 3-4 days, so nothing comes out.
And when nothing comes out - you lose 80 square feet of living space.

And "if" I was to order a luxury toy hauler and brand A did not offer a fuel cell and brand B did, I'd pass on brand A.
Fuel cells are not just for toys. We hardly ever have a need for 93 octane in the fuel cell for my bike (remember, we are East Coasters). But, that tank gets used all the time to run the generator. And if the generator had to be propane, I sure wish I was able to have 40 pound tanks! 40 pounders will not even fit in the Cyclone.

After using a toy hauler extensively for what is now our 6th season, I want the room that the garage takes up and am planning on replacing it with a non toy hauler.

I would venture to guess many people don't think about the what the garage area will be like if they don't get to take toys out when they get to camp, I know we didn't.
Even when we do take the cart and bike out the garage is not empty.
The electric cooler and ice maker stay put, as well as maybe a milk crate of other goods as does a bag or two of clothes that don't fit in the already too small bedroom.

Now if we are talking a TH based somewhat on the Newport chassis at 43' long - that is something to think about.

But it would have to have 3 axles, 20K GVW, plenty of tankage, including a fuel cell and 40 pound tanks, as well as all the other upgrades I would expect out of a Landmark. As well as some things maybe not thought about yet, like a 7K dual fuel Inverter generator.

Don't think it is possible. The Newport at Urbanna was already very heavy. With a 17,500 GVW it weighed almost 16K as shown, without water, propane, generator and batteries. Dual pane windows? Don't know.
Add those missing items in weight and there is barely enough room for Deb's clothes and the dog's toys.

And after plunking down 100K for my luxury full body painted toy hauler I would not want to find an unpainted door that sticks out like a sore thumb on the side.

And - a luxury toy hauler should have a sturdy ramp - talk to MOR/ryde before installing a ramp that is prone to warping and water intrusion.

 

[clayhud]

Clay, I was looking at the Idaho Tote as a possibility and while I like the trailer configuration I balked at the quoted $8,000+ price tag. That included the hitch and all but did not include the labor to have the hitch welded to my Landmark. Technically I'd be illegal in Virginia (you can't have tandem trailers without a special CDL license), but I've know several folks who pull tandem and have never received a ticket.

Keith, The Idaho Tote is a nice option, and as you noted a nice price! I agree since the Idaho has an axle that would considered tandem towing and as you say illegal in some states without proper CDL. The Swivel Wheel does not have an axle so I am told it is considered an extension of the 5th wheel and not tandem towing.

 

[Crumgater]

Our 5er is a dual use vehicle:
Use #1 is tailgating. We need space for BBQ, chairs, tables, the 'bar' and other party paraphernalia. No sleeping quarters required.
Use #2 is camping. BBQ still goes, but we don't need as many chairs, tables or the big bar, and instead add more long-term relaxation items, and sleeping quarters are needed.

The "hidden garage" concept of the bedroom that hides in the ceiling when the garage is in use is something we'd be VERY interested in. A side door is preferred, also, based on the rest of the party being in the parking stall next to us. The patio rooms don't work in a crowded parking lot. A fully-flat floor would also be preferred.

It would be great if slide rooms were available in the hidden garage/bedroom area... but I'm not sure how framing would work on that concept.

I've sketched up a concept floorplan - front living room, middle kitchen/bar area (no dining table required), middle split bath with big tub/shower, rear garage/convertible bedroom. With just a 10' garage area, could still fit everything in a 35' total length. Still a work in progress... have to find a budget to bring it to reality, anyway. But, dreaming is fun.

-Tina

 

[TomMontague]

Thanks for the detailed info - I would love to see your sketch sometime.

 

[Ladiver]

As a 30 something who bought a Cyclone last year, I will tell you there is interest in a high end toy hauler. What would I want it to have? Use 19.5 wheels with some 245/70R19.5 tires (like Goodyear G647). Also use the Mor/Ryde IS. This setup could allow a 19,200k+ trailer running on 4 tires rather than 6. I never could understand 3 axle trailers. I live in a cul-de-sac and my neighbor has a three axle trailer. Every year he has to replace the tires on the rear axle due to shredding them when he turns around.

 

[szewczyk_john]

I have enjoyed reading this post. It amazes me how everybody has different thoughts about what is important to them and what they want in their trailer. I would never be in the market for such an item but I would like to chime in on this post. We bought our RW 305 because of the floor plan and the fact that it had everything that we were looking for at the time we were in the market. I was 40 years old and our main goals were to:
1. increase living space over our SOB accomplished with the slides that our old unit didn't have.
2. add the ability to bring one of my bikes
3. be able to use the trailer without opening the slides.
4. amenities were not important to us as much as functionality was. We don't want or need the trailer to be laid out since we use less than 10 times a year.
We were in the market for 4 years before we found the RW. We loved it and thought that it had the most bang for the buck. We are still happy with it but we only used the unit for 2 years and the oldest boy is now serving our country and the youngest is entering his senior year of high school. We will have all kinds of extra room when both boys no longer can go with us or no longer want to.

I have seen one unit at the Martinsville Nascar race for a few years. It was a DIY custom job but the idea sounds as if it might be what some are looking for. It had a 12 foot garage but there was no side entry door into the garage area. The owner took a standard toy hauler and totally enclosed a frame around his ultra glide, building a garage inside of the units garage. When you were inside of his unit the garage area was totally enclosed and looked like a bunk house with three bunks and a back wall that hid the ramp door. one bunk was above his bike and two bunks on the opposite side, in between he had a large closet for storage. The bunk over top of his bike was bout 5 feet from the floor. I would guess that he used about 9 feet of his garage for this bunkroom, about 2/3 of the bunks were open and the last 1/3 was were the closet started. So when you were laying in the bunk your head to your knees were open to the side. From your knees down would be enclosed by the side wall on the outside and the closet on the inside. From the outside he had a full width ramp door but when the door was open you would see the back framing of the closet and the bunks. His garage was in the form of an "L" shape. He carefully would ride his bike up the ramp and into the one side of the "L". When he got the front wheel into the wheel chock his face would be at the back of that one back bunk wall. He clamped his bike in a self locking chock and tied the rear down. The rest of the garage was only about three feet deep. There was enough room to stand in there and he had a shelf section and a wall of pegboard that he had his hoses, electrical cords and other stuff hanging from. He thought it was stupid to use the entire 12 foot garage for one cycle. He had looked for a hauler that had a half of a garage but could not find one so he made it himself. He decided to add the bunk on top since he had 3 boys but also wanted to take his bike along.

He was from western Ohio. I do remember that he had the unit painted silver and there were no identifying names on his unit. When I first talked to him he told me that no company made what he wanted so he made his own so he would never would tell anyone whose make it was but I thought it was an early raptor. Although his carpenter skills were lacking and it was not pretty, but he made it work for him. I hope I explained this well enough for everyone to get the idea. Like him, I would haul my bike around in the garage but I would not fix things in the garage. so I really only need a half garage.

So I think that there are a lot of customers who want to be able to travel in ultra high style and luxury and haul one full size dresser type motorcycle. Why not go with a half of a garage 4.5 feet wide with a rear ramp door totally enclosed from the living area, only accessible from the rear door. In the living area the opposite half could be a long, narrow bath or a half a bunk house, or some other creative storage center. I would like to see something along those lines but my RW has enough luxury, style and amenities for me, I do not think that I could justify spending more on a unit like this original post was started about. I wish the powers to be would understand that not everyone wants to load up 4 ATVs, or multiple bikes or golf cart and a I really think that there are a lot of people out there that would like the ability to bring a single bike without sacrificing an entire 8, 10, 12, or 14 feet of their living space for a trailer width garage. Even if this idea is not worthy of this high end unit, I would like to see a unit produced under the RW or Cyclone badges. I know that some will laugh at this idea but it is my opinion and that is what the post was about.

So for such a long post but wanted everyone to understand what I saw without having pictures to show.

 

[recumbent615]

Jim, you are correct, wouldn't be wide enough for golf cart...Kevin, didn't know weight of cart, so platform could be designed to hold cart and then be raised, but does that leave out battery carts?

Jim,

Yes the Weight of my Gold Wing wet and loaded with my standard travel gear is slightly over 1000 lbs and the weight of a standard 4 pass EZgo Golf Cart with Batteries is 1000 lbs and Gas is 850 ( dry ). I was not aware the lift being discussed was not wide enough so my comment was only regarding the weight. I have seen Gold Wings on lifts behind motor homes, they do seem to sag some under the weight but I am unsure of the manufacture of the lifts I've seen.

sorry for my confusion.

Kevin

 

[Lou_and_Bette]

One, last thought on this subject. Before we decided on a 5r, we were looking at ClassA's, but not many in the TH line. I did see one on TV from the Hersey RV show that had a side compartment/slide in the rear that extended out but opened in the rear so a bike could be loaded and then retracted back into the coach. Was only wide enough for a full-sized bike so would leave plenty of space remaining in the rear of the rig. Not sure if a frame on a 5r could be heavy enough to handle the stress.

 

[TomMontague]

I would like to thank everyone for the excellent input and thoughts regarding a high end toy hauler. Before we go too much further with the idea - please keep in mind that doing a toy hauler within the Landmark brand is already a stretch - doing something " outside the box " might just be impossible with our current set-up. More than likely we would start with a simple 10+ foot box and see where that would lead. Lots of people say they would buy something until it comes time to sign the agreement - then POOF - they buy a rear living room.

I want to dominate the high-end market - I want Landmark to " set the standard " for this segment. I envision a line-up including a Toy Hauler, a Bonus Room, a 2nd Bedroom, A BunkHouse, and a Mobile Office and many more along with the standard Rear Living, Rear Entertainment, Front Living etc. As we continue to grow these floor plans will become reality. If we want to dominate a market we need to cater to everyone in that market space. Boomers are doing more and more and the demand for more versatile floor plans is / will continue to grow.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts and ideas - I firmly believe the closer we are as a manufacturer to our customers the better. We will continue to throw ideas and suggestions up on the forum for discussion and debate.

Have a great week,
Tom

 

[NWILSON]

As "almost" retirees we seldom have use for all the additional sleeping space most toyhaulers tout but our "dream" rig would still have one Happijac type bunk.
What would really be nice is additional, easy-access storage space where the current loft is. We only use it for sattelite dish, pillow, and blanket storage. We could also live without the half bath.
As to the length, I would want at least 11' in the garage to allow for walk around of the Harley or golf cart without having to lower the ramp.
Overall we've been quite pleased with our 3850. We've discussed several times what we'd change about this rig compared to others currently available. We only came up with 2 things...towel racks in the bathroom and a shelf/nightstand at the bed so we have somewhere to put our glasses, Kindle, tv remote, etc. when we turn the lights out.
We've been lusting over a 4100 but we would be more inclined to go with a Landmark that is geared to folks who share our travel needs.

 

[Ladiver]

Tom,

Thanks for asking for user feedback. This is what will help make the best trailers, not some corporate decisions. In addition to my 19.5 wheel suggestion, the absolute most important feature we require is that there is still access to the bathroom and kitchen with the slides in. We did not have that in our 3100, so a simple flip of a sliding glass door made that happen. This could have been done at the factory with absolutely no impact on time or cost. We part our trailer on the side of the house and like to have the ability to prep for our next outing with the slides in. Another advantage of access with the slides in is the ability to use the facilities or kitchen easily at a rest area or on a long drive with a short stop.

 

[porthole]

One SOB toy hauler that had my interest (briefly) had a garage that was roughly 4 - 41/2 feet wide on the ODS. Don't remember the length, but was at least 10'

The other "half" of the garage was a full length slide out, 4' wide.

This was a very neat concept. Park the rig, put the slides out and enjoy.

Raining? Leave the bike in the garage until ready, with no loss of room.

The rear half garage slide when out offered an additional 8x8 or so room.

 

[chiefneon]

Howdy!

it would be something we would love to see. As fulltimers and we meet and talk to many others like us a who are in the market for a TH it would be a welcome change. We would like to see something with more storage space. Only need fuel to run the generator. Doesn't need to sleep half a dozen to a dozen folks. We have a 2014 Cyclone 4000 and chose it because the seating area in the living room is viewable to the the TV media, and the kitchen area is separated. Don't carry a lot of toys but we do carry a Smart Car. A lot of fulltimers are in the market for TH's but there is very little for us to chose from with the up grades the Landmark may offer. As mentioned before. Weight is a big factor in fulltiming. Suspension, tires, axles are paramount and should a big part of the unit. We had to down size considerably when we moved from a 37' 5er to our now 44' TH. Women want storage space in the hitchen panty, draws etc... also a usable oven, and the now home style refrigerator being used in some units.

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon

 

[scottyb]

I could never see myself owning a 5th wheel w/o a garage. Between my 4 burner Weber gas grill and whatever cart, bike, or side-by-side I may own at the time, it is more valuable to me than additional living space. I don't see that changing as long as I am physically able to tow a 5th wheel. If I were to go full time, the thought of a high-end TH would be very appealing. The other option would be a Class A with an enclosed trailer for the toys and a small vehicle. Either way, I will carry my toys with me.

Not having a fuel cell and gas generator would be an automatic disqualification for me. Just last weekend I dry camped and ran the genny for 96 hours straight. What a nightmare that would be to feed it with propane. What I would like to see is a well designed floor plan. I feel like things were squeezed into the 4100, just to say it was there. For instance, the surround sound receiver is in the kitchen over the microwave. There's another thread recently about not having a place to put a satellite receiver. There are a few little design issues that I hope would not happen in a high-end coach.

 

[Ladiver]

Here is another interesting idea (not quite sure how it could be done, but...), what about a window option in the rear ramp door? Completely out of the box, but what I liked about many of the 5th wheel trailers was that nice big window in the back. That allowed great light and sometimes nice views. The toy hauler is even better when you drop the ramp, but when the weather sucks, or you are in a location where dropping the ramp is not possible, then an additional window would be nice.

Think of those buildings that have glass floors.



http://www2.dupont.com/SafetyGlass/en_US/applications/floors.html
http://www2.dupont.com/SafetyGlass/en_US/tech_info/strength.html

 

[Fugawi]

Here is another interesting idea (not quite sure how it could be done, but...), what about a window option in the rear ramp door? Completely out of the box, but what I liked about many of the 5th wheel trailers was that nice big window in the back. That allowed great light and sometimes nice views. The toy hauler is even better when you drop the ramp, but when the weather sucks, or you are in a location where dropping the ramp is not possible, then an additional window would be nice.

Think of those buildings that have glass floors.

View attachment 31260

Agree on the rear windows with TH flex space. How about this? I think Alfa Toyhouse had a good concept here.

http://alfa.wattsonink.com/alfaanimated.gif