Outlets dead

[travlingman]

Was running a ceramic heater last night on the outlet on the kitchen island. All of a sudden the heater shut off. Put heater in outlet on wall and it worked. Checked breakers and fusses and no problem. I have 2 receptacles on island and both are dead along with the outlet in the pantry/closet. All other outlets work fine. Tried resetting GCFI but it wasn't tripped so that didn't help. Tried to find another GFCI to reset but couldn't. Any ideas?

 

[branson4020]

Try that breaker (not the GFCI - the circuit breaker) again. Turn it off and then back on to make sure it's really reset. I know you said you checked it, but to some folks that just means a quick glance and it's not always easy to tell they are tripped.

 

[wdk450]

You have a bad insulation displacement connector AC outlet. See: //heartlandowners.org/showthread.ph...splacement-Connector-(IDC)-Electrical-Outlets .

 

[travlingman]

Since I have 3 dead, how can I tell which one it is?

 

[wdk450]

Since I have 3 dead, how can I tell which one it is?

Sorry, I jumped on the ceramic heater/outlet trouble description. I still recommend replacing these outlets with standard screw terminal outlets, ESPECIALLY where electric heaters are plugged in.

You are going to have to trace the wiring from the outlets backwards to the breaker panel. I expect you will come across a junction box with a bad connection.

Home Depot and Harbor Freight have tracer signal generator/receiver wiring tracing kits that put a radio signal on the wires that the receiver can pick up and locate if you just can't physically trace the wires.

Inspect, re-tighten and secure with electrical tape every wirenut connection you find.

All of my outlets on the kitchen island are on the GFI circuit. This is probably an electrical code requirement since there is a sink in the island. My 1 GFI protector outlet is in the bathroom, next to the sink. This outlet has input and output wiring, and is NOT an IDC wiring outlet.

 

[danemayer]

A non-contact voltage tester may be very helpful. Get the $20-25 variety, not the $10 unit. They're available at Home Depot and other hardware stores.

You hold it next to the wires and it lights up if the wire is hot. You'll quickly be able to tell if the wire is carrying voltage but the outlet is not.

 

[travlingman]

Had a mobile tech come out to look at. Thinks it is in GFIC reset. He called Heartland to get a wiring diagram and authorization to do this as warranty as rig is 1 year 2 months old and should be covered by the 2 year warranty. Heartland told him no wiring diagram available and they would only pay for 1 hour labor and then I would have to cover the rest. He has already spent an hour and problem not fixed. So from what I have seen, the 2 year warranty is worthless as it covers nothing. Going to call Heartland Monday and try to find out what the 2 year warranty they advertise covers, if it does cover anything or if it is just an advertising ploy.

 

[danemayer]

Had a mobile tech come out to look at. Thinks it is in GFIC reset. He called Heartland to get a wiring diagram and authorization to do this as warranty as rig is 1 year 2 months old and should be covered by the 2 year warranty. Heartland told him no wiring diagram available and they would only pay for 1 hour labor and then I would have to cover the rest. He has already spent an hour and problem not fixed. So from what I have seen, the 2 year warranty is worthless as it covers nothing. Going to call Heartland Monday and try to find out what the 2 year warranty they advertise covers, if it does cover anything or if it is just an advertising ploy.

All manufacturers specify limits on the amount of diagnostic and repair time covered for any particular warranty issue. If they didn't, service people would drive the cost of warranty through the roof (and you would pay more for the trailer, since warranty costs are included in the pricing).

If your service guy thinks it's a problem with the GFCI outlet, I'd expect he would use a volt meter and pretty quickly confirm voltage coming into the GFCI but not getting out, and that he would get you a new outlet. I'm not sure why it would take him more than an hour to figure it out and do the replacement.

Of course, when you use mobile servicers, you get to pay for their travel time charge, which often is a good tradeoff compared to hitching up, hauling to a dealer, and dropping the trailer off for service.

 

[travlingman]

All manufacturers specify limits on the amount of diagnostic and repair time covered for any particular warranty issue. If they didn't, service people would drive the cost of warranty through the roof (and you would pay more for the trailer, since warranty costs are included in the pricing).

If your service guy thinks it's a problem with the GFCI outlet, I'd expect he would use a volt meter and pretty quickly confirm voltage coming into the GFCI but not getting out, and that he would get you a new outlet. I'm not sure why it would take him more than an hour to figure it out and do the replacement.

Of course, when you use mobile servicers, you get to pay for their travel time charge, which often is a good tradeoff compared to hitching up, hauling to a dealer, and dropping the trailer off for service.

My fault for not making my post specific in the GFCI problem as I am not familiar with electric workings. It appears that a leg of the wiring is dead and they needed a wiring diagram to follow but there is not one. Asked factory if there was a 2nd GFCI outlet with reset hidden or out of site in coach and they said they didn't know. There is no bills of material for coach according to factory to tell what parts are in it. The only option mobile tech has is to follow lines through out the coach until they find the problem. Could take a few minutes or hours depending on how wiring was ran and when they find the problem. Heartland told me to use a mobile tech and they would pay after confirming them which I did. On previous issues I used this same tech and no issue with warranty, but was used in the 1 year period then. Hopefully when I call Monday it will be worked out and I can get my coach fixed under warranty.

 

[Bob-Renee]

I read with interest the thru the comments.
I too have an outlet problem - the outlet on island, both outlets outside and the storage space outlet are all dead. The GFI in bath ha 110v and out and all other outlets work. Sill me thinking the wire from the bathroom outlet would go down to the dead storage area outlet, but I cannot see or feel a wire coming down from Bath GFI.
Unfortunately I do not fit into the crawlspace to trace wires {:-(
I did see that there was a comment to change outlets the standard type, but dos anyone know where the AC wire from GFI goes what outlet first or what outlet feeds the island outlet, the storage outlet & the two outside outlets.
Hopefully some has figured out the electrical path.
I look forward to response.
Thanks
Bob

 

[jimtoo]

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge when needed.

I'm sure some of our other members will jump in soon. Have you reset the GFI? If you have and still have no power to the other outlets I would suggest you pull the GFI out and check to make sure it is resetting and providing power to the wiring.
Let us know what you find please.

Be sure and check out our Heartland Owners Club. Join us at a rally when you can and meet lots of the great folks here and make friends for a lifetime.

Enjoy the forum.

Jim M

 

[danemayer]

The typical dead outlet problem is caused by:

- a failure at the GFCI (loss of a couple of outlets)
- a failure where the wires go to a junction box under a slideout (loss of a couple of outlets)
- a failure at the outside park pedestal (loss of one leg of 50 amp service, usually more than just outlets)
- a loose shore power connection (loss of one leg of 50 amp service, usually more than just outlets)

Not to say it couldn't be something else, but those are the big hitters.

 

[Bob-Renee]

Dan has been very responsive to trying to help - but here was my last response to him hoping to narrow problem down to outlets in series:
"Dan – thanks, but
Of course the coroplast is blocking any view on the underside to check for junction box..

Again I do not understand – this outlet on the Island is one outof four not working.
This island outlet only has one wire in and runs under theisland toward the front of RV.
I think the problem is in one of the outlets (there are no wirenuts behind outlets – just quick connects).
If I had a problem with the inlet to the main circuit breaker –I would not have power to GFI and power out of the GFI.
Again – where does the wire go to from GFI plug in bath room andwhere does the feed wire come from to feed the storage area plug, outsideoutlets & Island."

Short of opening all of the outlets - I would like to believe someone has figured out the series circuit for the outlets from the GFI to give me a better place to start looking for the bad connection in an outlet.
Thanks
bob

 

[avvidclif]

How many GFI's did you find? Mine has 2.

 

[Bob-Renee]

Only one in the bathroom - where are your two?

 

[avvidclif]

I could have sworn I had two but a quick look only found the bathroom. I know my last trailer, not Heartland, had one for the bath and one for the kitchen. I'll look closer in the daylight and let you know if I find another one.

 

[Bob-Renee]

Re: Outlets dead on GFI Circuit

I talked with Art today over at Heartland Customer Service.
He tells me I am on the correct track starting with the working GFI in bathroom since I know I have current into and out of GFI.
As it has bee noted -- there is not a wiring diagram.
A technician (me) will have to open each GFI outlet to test the wires and connections as they pass thru each outlet to find the break in circuit.
Off to the hunt.
Bob

 

[buddyboy]

Re: Outlets dead on GFI Circuit

Good luck in the hunt. Let everyone know what you find, please.

 

[danemayer]

I'm really surprised that you don't have junction boxes under any of your slideouts. That's the first thing I'd look at after the GFCI.

 

[Bob-Renee]

Re: Outlets dead - GFI - Traced Circuit

I won the battle.
As verified by Heartland - since there is not a wiring diagram - you must start tracing wires from where there is voltage to where there is none.
I had the GFI opened in the bathroom - testing with a volt sensor - the wire from the GFI was live. Now to find where that wire goes.
Opening the outlet in the storage area - none of those 3 wires were live.
Next - thru that opening there were other wires in this cavity. Using the volt sensor I found one of the wires to be live. This wire appeared to go toward the dead outlet on the exterior, to the left of the storage area.
Opening that outlet - verifying that the wire in was live with no voltage out of the other two wires.
I replaced that outlet with standard outlet - connected all 3 wires - and now I voltage back to the other four outlet that were dead.
On m Big Horn - believe the first outlet in series after the GFI is/was the exterior outlet.
What I question is with 3 Romex cables attached to the exterior outlet and the storage outlet - Obviously one of those wires on each outlet is the inlet - as for the other cables:
I know one of the wires out goes to awning electrical switch.
One goes to outlet in the water/sewage closet &
One goes to the galley island.
Hopefully - this will help all that are trying to understand that GFI circuit.

Keep the tires between the lines,
Bob