2012 Ford F350 Superduty DEF useage

[bd2dabone]

I have about 1700 miles on my desiel. This model requires the addition of DEF to comply with emission standards. Leaving San Antonio this past weekend I got a chime alarm and flashing icon on instrument cluster stating "exhuast fluid fault-your speed will be reduced to 50 mph in 26 miles". I thought crap Saturday afternoon 430pm and the new truck is about to take a dump. I decided before getting out in the middle of nowhere to return to SA as I was only a few miles out of town and find the nearest truck stop/store and hopefully they would have DEF. DEF level said okay. Anyway i purchased a 2 gallon container at about twice the price it should have been. Poured almost 2 gallons into the DEF tank and started engine. Still had alarms, found all the resets and hit them, same thing. Breaking out the instruction manual, yes against guys natural instincts to read an instruction manual found a glimmer of hope saying the alarm condition may take a few minutes to clear. So I decided at this time of day we would head toward the nearest Ford dealer just in case. About half way there all alarms cleared and things looking up. Went on to the dealer and confirmed the condition I experienced was normal for a low DEF tank.

Question being the tank is supposed to be around 5 gallons. If I put in less than 2 gallons and I was already receiving the alarm had I missed hearing the previous alarms, had the alarm malfunctioned and I only got the alarm that said it was shutting me down in a bit, had the dealer not topped off the DEF tank when they fueled the truck up for me. They say I should get around 5k miles from a tankful (first oil change).

Gonna watch this and see how it continues to play out and maybe have to have a calibration performed on the level of the DEF tank?

 

[pegmikef]

I got the alarm once towing to Arizona, but it said 800 miles, and I have only seen the alarm once. I always run the system status check before I take off and it will say the DEF is ok or it is less than half full. I always fill it then and I always carry a 2 1/2 gallon jug of the stuff when traveling. I buy mine at the ford house and it is about 16 bucks. Walmart and some of the autoparts store have it for a little less, but I had trouble filling it with the Walmart jug. The mopar jug comes with a nice vented nozzle that fits very well. This stuff is really bad for skin contact. On the burn rate, I think it is proportionate to the amount of fuel you burn. The lower your mpg, the faster the stuff burns. You might get 5K if you don't tow anything. When I get the truck serviced I specify that the DEF be filled. My dealer only uses the 2 1/2 gallon jugs, so I usually end up with a partial jug.

 

[funntheson]

My local Pep Boys has it cheaper, and it also comes with a nozzle. I have received the 800 mile warning a couple of times, but that's it. The dealer is not going to fill it up for you, and if they do, they will charge you way more than what you can get it for yourself.

 

[pegmikef]

Interesting, my dealer just charges me the same price that I pay for 2 1/2 gallons when I buy it and I end up with the any left over in the container.

 

[porthole]

DEF and the dealer

Your truck's fuel tank and DEF tank should have been full when you got the truck. That is not a good will gesture on the dealers part either. Built into the price of the truck is the full tank of fuel. At the time of order my invoice had about $118 for fuel listed. You don't see this on the regular invoice, rather the build broadcast.

Ford also offered to all the 2011 customers a free first DEF fill up.

That said. All the whiz bang Ford engineers designed the system so that you should use approximately a tank of DEF to a "change your oil" reminder.

The DEF system is directly tied into the engine load management. Use minimal load = minimal DEF. Towing heavy for a long time - DEF will be used up as well. And your oil minder will also be proportional to your driving habits.

The half way alert should allow you to use one 2.5 gallon jug of blue juice.
I have let it go as far as about 600 miles to empty and I was able to get 2 jugs of 2.5 gallons in. Which seems to coincide with the users on the truck forums saying they believe the tanks are really 6 gallons.

And the alert does take a short time to clear.

To the OP, the DEF alert first comes on when a half tank is reached. It then clears and stays cleared.
The next alert is at 800 MTE. This alert will come on every time you start the truck.

Your truck seems to have missed the first two alerts and went right to the 50 mile warning. That sounds like something is wrong.

 

[RoadJunkie]

There could be something wrong, but what is the dealer likely to say? "Hummmmm, no code thrown...must be a fluke", bring it back if it happens again". Translated it means they believe you missed the first warnings or the tank was below 800 mile mark to begin with. By the way, congrats on the new truck! I'm really thinking about getting a '12.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Hey guys,

Could someone educate me on this DEF stuff? I'm still tooling around on a 2008 Ford with the 6.4L diesel. Is the use of DEF part of the evolution away from regens and all the silly things that my generation of diesel does? I once told my Ford dealer that it wouldn't take long at all before people laughed at the fact that trucks had to go through regen cycles as the means to keep emmissions clean.

Thanks,

Pete

 

[pegmikef]

I don't know about the other stuff, but I think DEF came out at the same time Ford broughtl their 6.7 L Diesel on line. I think all new diesels have to have it now.

 

[codycarver]

Diesel exhaust fluid or Urea


What is DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid)?

Urea

Diesel Urea is comprised of 2 major components; urea and Deionized water (DI). Urea is an organic compound with the chemical formula (NH2)2CO. Urea has common uses in fertilizer, agriculture, and the pharmaceutical industry. Urea is used at a 32.5 % mixture with 67.5% DI water in Diesel Urea in Selective Catalytic Reduction Systems (SCR). The fluid is in used to reduce the NOx pollutants, in exhaust gases from combustion from diesel, dual fuel, and lean-burn natural gas engines. In afore mentioned SCR systems; a water based urea solution is injected into the exhaust system. The ammonia produced by the hydrolysis of urea reacts with the NOx emissions and is converted into nitrogen and water within the catalytic converter.

Some quick facts regarding Diesel Urea​

• DEF is a stable fluid that will not separate, and is colorless
• DEF is not flammable
• DEF is not a pollutant
• DEF is not listed by any U.S. or Canadian transit authority as a hazardous material
• DEF is not impacted by freezing and subsequent defrosting. However it does freeze at 11°F. The heating and cooling system on board is used to thaw the fluid
• DEF will degrade in direct sunlight
• DEF may have a slight odor similar to ammonia
• DEF weighs 9.10 lbs per gallon and is shipped Class 14 an “Environmentally friendly fluid”

Handling
Diesel Urea is recommended to be handled with care, with no contamination allowed. Diesel Urea does not pose any risk to humans, animals, the environment, or equipment. Product quality standards must be maintained throughout the supply chain. Distributors and users of the fluid must have dedicated transportation and storage (stainless steel and/or poly). The heating and cooling system on board is used to heat and cool the DEF tank until there is proper flow. The engine will operate up to 70 minutes in cold temperatures at what point DEF flow must be reached. Once the product is delivered to the user for use; dispensing the fluid properly is important. A closed sealed connector systems is always recommended. All pumps, valves, hoses, meters, and nozzles, must be dedicated for Diesel Urea and not shared with any other fluids.
Storage
To get the most out of product shelf life, the ideal storage temperature is between 20°F and 85°F. Expectations for shelf life are defined in ISO 22241-3 when stored properly. Diesel Urea will degrade in time depending on temperature and exposure to sunlight. If the maximum temperature does not exceed approximately 75° F for an extended period of time the shelf life will be easily two years. Temporary exposure to high temperatures has little or no impact on DEF. Diesel Urea is stored at extremely cold temperatures (the fluid will freeze at 11°F), however the product is not impacted by freezing and subsequent defrosting of the fluid. *Easy tip: keep the fluid out of the direct sunlight, extremely hot, and extremely cold temperatures for a prolonged periods of time and you will be on your way. If the fluid is stored in extremely hot temperatures the fluid is not “bad” it will simply be consumed at a higher rate by the vehicle.
Shelf Life
Shelf Life is a function of Ambient Storage Temperature. Listed below is a chart outlining the guide for shelf life based on ISO 22241-3 specifications.

Temperature º F	Temperature º C	Minimum Shelf Life
< 50º F	< 10º C	36 months
< 77º F	< 25º C	18 months
< 86º F	< 30º C	12 months
< 95º F	< 35º C	6 months
< 95º F	< 35º C	Retest each lot

Usage & Fuel Economy
Diesel Urea will be consumed at a rate of 2-4% of diesel fuel. It is also true that Diesel Urea will contribute approximately 4% fuel economy savings to the average vehicle. SCR is designed to chemically reduce the NOx output of the exhaust gas after the diesel particulate filter. Because this is being completed after the combustion process, it allows the engine design to be modified for maximized fuel efficiency; lowering engine EGR rates, thus increasing the in cylinder oxygen content which can lower engine particulate matter output. Less particulate matter also reduces the amount of fuel used for soot regeneration cycles.

Source: Chemicals direct

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks guys. It sounds to me like the new diesels are still going through the regen cycles. From the text above I see "Less particulate matter also reduces the amount of fuel used for soot regeneration cycles". So DEF might make the process more efficient but does not preclude the necessity of regening. I was just hoping that regens would become obsolete as quickly as they started. I still find it embarrasing at times when the regen cycle starts in my truck. I can usually tell because I see the white smoke piling up behind me and the guy in my rearview braking to allow himself more room between us.

 

[porthole]

Regen and DEF are not the same

Regen involves a process of injecting extra fuel in the exhaust to raise exhaust temps. There is also a DPF - diesel particulate filter.
This filter scrubs the exhaust of the diesel stuff you see. Periodically the system goes into "Regen" where the extra high temperature burns off the stuff clogging the particulate filter. Regen can come on anytime but it will be over a certain RPM. The frequency is controlled by the computer based on engine load. Hard heavy driving may have less frequent regen cycles because the vehicle is working harder.

DEF is part of a SCR system, Selective Catalyst Reduction. Here the DEF is injected into the SCR to reduce emissions, mostly NOX - oxides of nitrogen, the root of all evil for California smog (or so they say).

DEF usage is also based on load, but has the opposite affect of the DPF. The harder you drive the truck, the more DEF you use.

All of the emission components not only help clean the air, but it makes you feel good. Especially when the EGR system pukes and causes thousands of dollars of damage.

although, I can say that the new truck has an exhaust that is cleaner then any vehicle I have ever owned. No more soot on the side of the trailer.

 

[camr]

It seems that the DEF issues, both pros and cons, appear on almost every RV and truck forum. I would like to offer my opinion, which can be summed up in one sentence: I have spent more money on windshield washer fluid than I have spent on DEF fluid.

I have had one 1/2 full DEF message, and it took less than 5 minutes to fill the tank.

The fuel economy benefits vastly outweigh the cost and inconvenience of the DEF system.

 

[mmomega]

I have spent more on DEF than I have on windshield wiper fluid, I just filled that thing . I've probably purchased 12 gallons or so of DEF over 17,000 miles. A lot of those were heavy towing. At $9 at O'Reileys for 2.5 gallons of BlueDEF it isn't bad. I check the computer every once in a while, at a stop light or whenever and if it shows DEF below 1/2 then I stop in a grab a jug.
When we go on a 1,000+ mile trip this summer I'll put an extra 5 gallons in the basement of the RV.
I have never had any problems whatsoever with the system or finding DEF. I have a harder time finding my oil or filters than I do the DEF.

 

[pegmikef]

It seems that the DEF issues, both pros and cons, appear on almost every RV and truck forum. I would like to offer my opinion, which can be summed up in one sentence: I have spent more money on windshield washer fluid than I have spent on DEF fluid.

I have had one 1/2 full DEF message, and it took less than 5 minutes to fill the tank.

How many miles and how many towing miles? I have used ten gallons in 12,000 miles over 10k of which were towing. Of course the volume of windshield washer fluid usage is climate dependent. In West Texas I might buy a jug once a year or so.

 

[codycarver]

Nearly all my miles with the Ford are towing and I haven't had to add any DEF. My dealer tops it off when serviced and so far I haven't see much difference in maintenance cost between the Ford and Dodge.

 

[porthole]

The fuel economy benefits vastly outweigh the cost and inconvenience of the DEF system.

Has nothing to do with economy or performance, strictly there as a way to control emissions. An between the DEF,/SCR and DPF I've never driven a diesel that was so clean burning. The fact that you can stand next to the tailpipe as it runs is a testament as to how far clean burning diesels have come.

I have a harder time finding my oil or filters than I do the DEF.

Dieselfiltersonline.com Order enough and you can get free shipping.

BTW for all you 2011 Ford owners. I recently changed my fuel filters, no big deal.
I had previously ordered a spare filter cap (container that folds the frame mounted filter) and subsequently ordered the drain plug and water sensor., In the future I will use this when changing the filters. Drop, install spare cap and filter, clean the other one later.

Tousley ford has good pricing.

http://www.tousleyfordparts.com/par...teid=214771&vehicleid=1446476&diagram=ME11759

 

[codycarver]

Has nothing to do with economy or performance, strictly there as a way to control emissions. An between the DEF,/SCR and DPF I've never driven a diesel that was so clean burning. The fact that you can stand next to the tailpipe as it runs is a testament as to how far clean burning diesels have come.

Usage & Fuel Economy
Diesel Urea will be consumed at a rate of 2-4% of diesel fuel. It is also true that Diesel Urea will contribute approximately 4% fuel economy savings to the average vehicle. SCR is designed to chemically reduce the NOx output of the exhaust gas after the diesel particulate filter. Because this is being completed after the combustion process, it allows the engine design to be modified for maximized fuel efficiency; lowering engine EGR rates, thus increasing the in cylinder oxygen content which can lower engine particulate matter output. Less particulate matter also reduces the amount of fuel used for soot regeneration cycles.

Source: Chemicals direct

 

[bd2dabone]

Dang from the way mine is using DEF I better take it in and have it serviced. Oh I found the windshield washer fluid with rain x in it and it seems to work very well. Usually a buck and some change at Wally World...$11 and some change for DEF at Wally World for 2 gallons.

 

[mmomega]

Dang from the way mine is using DEF I better take it in and have it serviced. Oh I found the windshield washer fluid with rain x in it and it seems to work very well. Usually a buck and some change at Wally World...$11 and some change for DEF at Wally World for 2 gallons.

That's the same stuff I use, pick it up at O'Reileys for $9-10 I think.

Also, IF my truck is getting 4% better fuel economy because of the DEF then I'd hate to drive it without.

Now a water injection system I can understand how it would decrease EGT's and improve mileage as it is working but I must be having an off morning wrapping my head around how a nozzle that sprays DEF into the exhaust way after the engine improves fuel mileage.

 

[porthole]

The 4% is part of the koolaid

But if you think about it, the engine needs to run lean to get the best mileage. Running lean means it is also running hot. Running hot means NOX is higher then what the EPA has determined is acceptable.

The most common way to lower temps and reduce NOX is EGR, exhaust gas recirculation. For those that don't know, it is exactly what it sounds like, a portion of the exhaust is recirculated into the intake system. This degrade performance and lowers NOX.

On a diesel, EGR dilution is far more detrimental to engine life and performance. So DEF was born. It works, and as I mentioned before, small truck diesels have never been so clean running.

But to say that DEF based SCR systems increase mileage, well that is a bit mis-leading.


and - any potential increase is offset by burning off the soot in the DPF with additional diesel fuel injection.