Electric/Hydraulic Disc Brake System failure

[J.S.B.]

Our Savannah came with hydraulic disc brakes. Recently we had a line break which leads to an instant and total brake failure. Ours happened when a tractor trailer in front of us did a very quick stop which did cause a bit of a panic when all that stopped us was the trucks brakes. Upon inspecting the right rear brake line at the caliper had broken. Looking closer the line was not supported except for the one zip tie in about two feet on he left side of the axle. My opinion is that non support would allow the line to flex/shake which probably lead to work hardening of the metal and then failure.

I have since replaced the original zip ties which all seemed a little light as well as, put for one, loose and showing evidence of movement from the wear marks left on the axles.

When I contacted Landmark they had a shop come out to look at and then had it all fixed the very next day. The response to this was very satisfying.

Hopefully this is just a single freak event. Checking these zip ties is extremely easy as well as adding or replacing as needed.

Travel safely everyone

2014 Landmark Savannah

 

[Hunter11]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

JSB, I noticed the same thing on our trailer after getting it home and crawling under it the first time. They had two zip ties holding the disc brake line on the back axle and three on the front. I added 4 more heavy duty zip ties to each axle and tried to check and make sure the lines were not rubbing on anything. Glad things turned out well for you and all were safe.

 

[olcoon]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

I don't know how they are set up, but I'd think the zip tie would eventually wear through the line. Seems putting the zip tie through a small rubber hose & then applying it around the brake line would make it better...but I don't know.

 

[rxbristol]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

It's like my wife said...built in obsolesce. I have drum breaks on mine and I found the electrical wires feeding into the drums, on the left side, unprotected and rubbing on the spring suspension. I taped and put conduit around the wires to protect them. I've found lots of questionable workmanship underneath and I'm slowly fixing, securing and modifying. Thanks to this forum, I'm learning lots and hopefully I will help someone else as I post what I've learned, modified, or improved.

 

[Hunter11]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

I went at lunch today and bought some long zip ties, 2' of rubber fuel hose and some large wire loom. I am going to cut the zip ties off the axles that were installed at the factory and replace them with larger ones with rubber fuel hose on it where they contact the brake lines. The large wire loom is for the rubber propane line I found rubbing the frame in three different spots.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

I found the same thing with my brake wiring. I also installed a generator and solar power system that required me to take out the back basement wall. When I looked i there I could see pavement. So I crawled up under the rig and taped it off with Gorilla tape.

It's like my wife said...built in obsolesce. I have drum breaks on mine and I found the electrical wires feeding into the drums, on the left side, unprotected and rubbing on the spring suspension. I taped and put conduit around the wires to protect them. I've found lots of questionable workmanship underneath and I'm slowly fixing, securing and modifying. Thanks to this forum, I'm learning lots and hopefully I will help someone else as I post what I've learned, modified, or improved.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

A cut up gallon milk jug is a good source of High Density Polyethylene. It has an inherent property that makes it useful in preventing chafing. I often use Gorilla tape wrap, then a plastic milk jug wrap then another gorilla tape wrap then tie it off with a wire tie. I'm not poo pooing you method but if you're ever in a predicament a roll of gorilla tape can go a long way. I think you could patch a tire from the inside with it.

Unlike you I have electric and they are destined to failure unless I get some wire protectors on them, I do not see how that can go unaddressed at the factory.

I went at lunch today and bought some long zip ties, 2' of rubber fuel hose and some large wire loom. I am going to cut the zip ties off the axles that were installed at the factory and replace them with larger ones with rubber fuel hose on it where they contact the brake lines. The large wire loom is for the rubber propane line I found rubbing the frame in three different spots.

 

[dewwood]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

I am curious, I do not have hydraulic brakes but have thought about getting them. Are the lines steel and if so do they have flexible hose at the ends to make the connections to dampen the vibration?

 

[Hunter11]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

Are the lines steel and if so do they have flexible hose at the ends to make the connections to dampen the vibration?

Yes/Yes

 

[J.S.B.]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

The flexible hose drops from the frame to the axle to compensate for the normal movement of the axle. That line goes to a tee block which is where the steel lines join that run out to the calipers.

 

[J.S.B.]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

No flexible line to the caliper.

 

[J.S.B.]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

I do love the way your thinking Hunter11. Not only easy but effective way to protect both the line and zip tie.

 

[J.S.B.]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

 

[porthole]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

View attachment 30372

Who ever installed that brake line needs to stick to mud flaps or something else non critical.
Your picture, without physically seeing it, looks like an improperly performed flare.
As well as an improperly routed brake line. I would not have routed the line over the spring pack.

Seeing that, I would inspect all the flares. There is a specific way to perform tubing flares when used with high pressure.

 

[rxbristol]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

J.S.B., your pictures are scary!

 

[rxbristol]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

Gotta love that Gorilla Tape! I started with extra screws, washers and then black silicone, but the Gorilla Tape is easier and more effective.

I found the same thing with my brake wiring. I also installed a generator and solar power system that required me to take out the back basement wall. When I looked i there I could see pavement. So I crawled up under the rig and taped it off with Gorilla tape.

 

[jbeletti]

Re: Hydrolic Brake failure

JSB,

Did the servicer bleed the brake system too? Were you there when they did it?

Reason I ask - I've had the same failure you had. I have 3 to 4 tie-wraps per axle, securing brake lines - but, on the end opposite of the T, the last tie-wrap was maybe 2 feet in from the hub. That length of unsecured line, I believe, allowed oscillation to occur in the line and that led to the failure of the line at the connector at the caliper. This is my theory anyway.

I replaced the line myself, with a few phone calls to Dave H (cookie) But I have yet to bleed air from the system. Turns out, the bleeder screw is near the top of the caliper on the "front" side! So I believe the wheels will need to come off to access the bleeder screws and get the job done.

With about $10 in parts (plus an existing 50 foot extension cord), I created a switch system that will allow me to activate the actuator from under the coach at the brakes in order to pressurize the system and bleed the air. I was at a campground in MN when I replaced the lines and was getting eaten alive my mosquitos after the biblical rains they've received.

My plan is to raise the whole coach using the 6-point LevelUp, remove the wheels and get it done. While the wheels are off, I may take then to town and have them balanced. Also a good time to inspect all my suspension components and torque all the bolts

So - I'm using the RV, making our way home (3-day trip), with brakes that are "delayed", but working.

Trust that I have given this feedback back to the plants so they are aware of what you and I both had happen. My coach was one of the first to have disc brakes and I'm hopeful that we have the processed more dialed in at this time.

Note too that I replaced the plastic tie-wraps with stainless steel ones. The 14" length ones from NAPA were the perfect length. I used about 5 on my axle where I made the repair. I will do the same on the other axle when I bleed the system.

 

[jbeletti]

As a follow-up on my disc braking system fail - it's all fixed up now.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I had already replaced the broken steel brake line.

Today, my neighbor, a former ASE certified mechanic assisted me in bleeding the brake system.

I can confirm with certainty that the bleeder screws are on the front side, top of the caliper. Depending on the wheel style, some may be able to rotate the wheel to a position that will give access to the bleeder screw in order to bleed the system.


With my wheel style and their smaller round holes, we felt it best to remove the wheels to gain the best access. Thank you LevelUp!


After loosening the lug nuts, I put LevelUp into Manual mode and raised left side of the coach enough to just get the tire off the ground. Perfect!

After replacing the line a couple weeks back, I had refilled the actuator reservoir with DOT 3 braking fluid. It took most of a quart. I will be buying another quart just to have on-hand if needed.


Using a combination of my friend's Vacuum Pump Brake Bleed Kit and my home brew switching system to activate my Dexter brake actuator, we got the job done. Wow - there was a lot of air in the system.

When we finished bleeding the system at the brake that I replaced the line to, we replaced that wheel and removed the wheel behind it, which has the brake the furthest from the actuator in the system. We cracked the bleeder screw there and activated the actuator - nothing but fluid

I called Dave (cookie) to confirm lug nut torque for the 17.5" wheels, then confirmed it with Heartland and we torqued all 4 wheels to 120 ft/lbs. I see a good torque wrench in my future.

Sunday will be the test of the system as we head north east for the NE Region rally.

 

[mobilcastle]

Anyone had this problem with Mor/Ryde? I am heading there next month to have disk brakes installed. Those of you with disk brakes-how much better are they than self adjusting electric?

 

[jnbhobe]

There is nothing like disc brakes once you have them you will wonder how you lived without them. Are you getting the IS too ?? It is a big big BIG difference.