Ford 6.7L HPFP failures w/o warranty

[westxsrt10]

I have changed my mine on the new Ford diesel......
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1142885-engine-failure-on-2011-ps-6-7-ltr.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1134893-hpfp-detailed-facts.html

All trucks have some failures under warrenty but FORD decided to NOT cover HPFP's failures leaving the owners to pay $10,000-$12,000 out of pocket.

 

[lwmcguir]

Buy a Dodge or Chevy. They never break down or have fuel problems.

 

[SouthernNights]

I realize the 6.7 is totally different from the 6.4 but I had a HPFP failure on my 2010. Truck had 39000 miles on it.

Just another problem in a long list of problems with it.

Two days after I got it back from the Ford dealership, I drove it into a Dodge dealership.

 

[camr]

What is so especially sad is that Ford has allowed this issue to blow up so badly that there are posts about this on almost every board on the internet. They most certainly had a choice as to how to handle all these failures, that are primarily not the fault of the owners. GM has had similar HPFP failures, but it appears that they are looking after their owners. My advice would be to vote with your wallets, and give your hard earned money to a company that stands behind their products and customers.

 

[mmomega]

Buy a Dodge or Chevy. They never break down or have fuel problems.

New Duramax's uses the exact same fuel pump.
I researched all 3 for a good year before buying a 2011 truck and each had their own problems. Proper regular maintenance goes a long way with any diesel and many people push the limits beyond what they should. Not taking up for Ford because I have one but the driver should do their part as well.
Things do happen and it sucks when it does, especially when you happen to have a bad part.

Actually read a post on a duramax forum where a member had his truck die, took it to the dealership and it the fuel pump had failed. Dealer replaced all seals, pump, gaskets and everything was fine again.

 

[porthole]

The HPFP failures have become a fairly large internet blast.
Although relatively speaking there have been very few failures versus number of units produced.

GM has had just as many failures as Ford (same pump). The difference is that GM seems to have been taking care of the problems under warranty, so the they are under the radar.

NTHSA are well into an investigation of the failures with Ford, GM and Volkswagen. VW is where the failures due to slight water ingestion were first noted.

Note - all these failures are Bosch pumps, not Ford or GM pumps.

Like JD, I researched for almost a year before buying the Ford. Pump failures were non existent before I bought my truck.

I have changed the way I do things now. I try and buy fuel only from established stations, mostly Shell and Sunoco.
I bought the Ford recommend fuel additives, which were actually less expensive then the Diesel Kleen products.
I ordered multiple sets of Motorcraft oil, fuel filters and air filters, and I'm keeping the receipt.

If I had to replace my truck tomorrow it would be with another Ford.

 

[TXBobcat]

I have changed the way I do things now. I try and buy fuel only from established stations, mostly Shell and Sunoco.
I bought the Ford recommend fuel additives, which were actually less expensive then the Diesel Kleen products.
I ordered multiple sets of Motorcraft oil, fuel filters and air filters, and I'm keeping the receipt.

If I had to replace my truck tomorrow it would be with another Ford.

I had a discussion with my Son-in-law about fuel. He said his mechanic (whom I know) said not to buy fuel from anyone but the major companies because the cheaper stations are using a lessor quality fuel, with less additives. What is your reason to stay with Shell, Chevron, and such?

I use Diesel Kleen in my fill up of fuel. My Ford dealer said it is good to use cetane in the fuel. Diesel Kleen has cetane boost in it. What is the problem with it?

Thanks
BC

 

[mmomega]

I've actually changed to Lucas fuel additive for the last 9 fill-ups, it looks to have more "lubrication" than dieselkleen. Sill debating which to stick with.
I only run Motorcraft filters as well.

 

[porthole]

I had a discussion with my Son-in-law about fuel. He said his mechanic (whom I know) said not to buy fuel from anyone but the major companies because the cheaper stations are using a lessor quality fuel, with less additives. What is your reason to stay with Shell, Chevron, and such?

I use Diesel Kleen in my fill up of fuel. My Ford dealer said it is good to use cetane in the fuel. Diesel Kleen has cetane boost in it. What is the problem with it?

Thanks
BC

Bob,
I wouldn't worry too much with the 06, the 11's and up and far more picky when it comes to fuel quality.
The 06's have their own issues though (EGR mostly)

I have used Diesel Kleen for years, still have some. And for all I know it may be the same stuff the Motorcraft PM-22A is.
It seems Ford has started to seriously back the recommendation of fuel additives (a reversal of previous recommendations), that and quality fuel.

I believe name brand suppliers have more at stake with fuel quality, especially when it comes to water. And if you need to file a claim against them for getting a tank full of water, you probably have a better chance of recovering the funds.

Many of the no name stations get their fuel from the same depots that supply the name brands. But additives may be different and there may be unknown amounts of Bio mixed in (which can cause water issues on it's own).

I use Shell exclusively in my Motorcycle because of some of the additives.

 

[lwmcguir]

As noted in the post from Porthole the additives are the difference in fuel. If you go to a terminal you can see all the differerent tanks of additives for the differerent destinations. I use Ford filters/additive just in case of an issue. If you really get to checking the percent of Ford fuel issues is small compared to SOB's and against the number of units on the road. I would never fuel in a cut rate station even if it were significantly cheaper. My next Truck will be a 6.7 Ford as well.

 

[ricatic]

New Duramax's uses the exact same fuel pump.
I researched all 3 for a good year before buying a 2011 truck and each had their own problems. Proper regular maintenance goes a long way with any diesel and many people push the limits beyond what they should. Not taking up for Ford because I have one but the driver should do their part as well.
Things do happen and it sucks when it does, especially when you happen to have a bad part.

Actually read a post on a duramax forum where a member had his truck die, took it to the dealership and it the fuel pump had failed. Dealer replaced all seals, pump, gaskets and everything was fine again.

Respectfully, I must disagree with you. There have been far too many failures reported that have had nothing to do with poor owner maintenance habits. While the sky is not falling and no one should be selling their Ford 6.7 for fear of HPFP failure, all owners should be running a lubricity additive in their fuel. Using Ford's PM22A product will at least allow an unfortunate owner of a failed 6.7 HPFP to wave the receipts in their face. Unfortunately, the history of the issue tells us it will not matter.

Owners of these trucks should not have to worry about an occasional WIF warning. If you read the owners manual it clearly says to drive the truck until it is safe to drain the DFCM. It does not say to shut the truck down and have it towed to a dealership for a $10,000 repair bill. The latest software update for the 6.7 Ford contains a computer flag that tells Ford that a WIF event has occurred. Good luck with getting the repairs covered under warranty if that happens.

The NHTSA investigation is moving forward. Fords answers to their questions are now public information. An interesting admission by Ford, contained within the answers, shows that the HPFP failure rate in Canadian trucks is much lower than the US failure rate. This can be broken down into percentages of sales per country that are shown in a table within the report. Canadian diesel fuel must conform to higher standards than US fuel. The US standard for lubricity is 520 Scar. The Canadian fuel standard is 460 scar. The lower the number, the better lubricity factor in the fuel. Coincidentally, the 460 scar fuel rating is the minimum standard fuel that Bosch requires for the long term success of the CP4.2 series pumps that both GM and Ford use in their engines. Bosch publications, as late as 9/2009, all state the requirement for 460 scar fuel or better. Pumps exposed to 500 scar fuel can expect a lifespan of 1000 hours. MY HPFP went 1200 hours on US fuel before it self destructed. Is it coincidence that the Canadian fuel is providing significantly fewer HPFP failures?

The saddest part of the story is all about Ford's treatment of the hard working owners of these $50,000 plus trucks who put their faith in Ford and now are bearing the cost of an obvious design shortfall. One has to ask why GM, who is experiencing a slightly higher percentage of CP4 series HPFP failures than Ford, has decided to fix all the failures under warranty? Could it be that they understand the 460 scar fuel issue and are stepping up to the plate to take care of their customers? UYltmately, the cost of these warranty repairs end up at Bosch. Does GM have a better relationship with Bosch which makes their warranty repairs possible? not likely...Ford needs to own up to the growing problem and fix these trucks without making the customer feel like he has done something wrong...

Regards

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

After reading all over the net on many forums I have to express my thoughts. Bosch says the HPFP needs a scare rating of 460 or lower to reach it's expected life span. That is a fuel that is not offered in most of the US as our national standard is 520. The fact that Ford is not covering these pumps is troubling and confusing at the same time. Ford will bill most if not all of the repair cost to Bosch. This is SOP for any manufacturer. Their stated failure rate is very low so it is not any real ding on their gross proffits. What possible reason would they have do deny warranty. This is very poor customer service.

I own a 2011 F250 6.7. I understand when buying a first year motor you may have some issues that need to be worked out. This is normal, I owned a 6.0 so I have been through this before. The difference now is they are canceling warranty on these HPFP failures. While I have a warranty I am not too concerned about a failure as it will be covered. I will have to deal with some inconvenience but it will be repaired. The problem for me is the 6.7 HPFP is not being covered and I do not have 8-18,000 dollars to pay for the repair of a part that technically cannot operate properly with the nationally mandated fuel in this country.

Please think twice about purchasing one of the trucks until ford fixes this issue. Either by a recall or replacement of the defective part and by defective I mean the part will not perform properly with our national fuel standard, or a confirmation by Ford that they will cover the part. Unless you do not mind taking the chance of paying for one of these failures yourself.

Don't get me wrong I love my truck. I think it is the best looking truck on the market and I get great fuel mileage, but every time I get in it I worry that this might be the trip that costs me thousands of dollars. If I had known of this issue I would not have made the purchase. It is just not worth the risk for me.

Sorry this is my first post here, just think people need to make an informed decision when looking at these trucks!

 

[mmomega]

On one note there are 6.7 running today with 200,000+ miles on them already so after 13,000+ gallons of diesel(give or take) they are still running. I personally am no where near this number and at the moment I have no reason to doubt my truck will do the same mileage. On another note, every single model of vehicle on the market has its problems and this is where the Internet can be a good thing and bad. I'm sure every single owner of a new Ford that has visited an RV or diesel forum is now scared that they have a ticking time bomb because of 5 reports.
IF the definitive reason for HPFP failure is the lubrication value of US diesel, there are additives for that, dozens of them.
Just add and drive but worrying won't stop a problem from happening. It did not stop my 6.0L from blowing head gaskets. It didn't stop my wife's Mercedes SUV transmission from destroying itself or the air ride system from going out 2 months before that.
Like one has put it before; we buy these trucks that are priced like a big nice Lincoln so we drive them like and expect them to work like a big Lincoln but it is a large truck. I've yet to read about a failure from someone that said, "Man, I had the pedal pinned to the floor when such and such happened or I was towing twice my legal weight up an 8%grade when this happened."
I believe everyone should do their fare share of research before buying ANY vehicle no matter if it's $2,000 or $85,000. If my HPFP went out tomorrow I will still be driving it after it is fixed because I feel I purchased the best truck, I didn't trade in my 6.0 on another after the head gaskets went out for the same reason.
JMHO.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

On one note there are 6.7 running today with 200,000+ miles on them already so after 13,000+ gallons of diesel(give or take) they are still running. I personally am no where near this number and at the moment I have no reason to doubt my truck will do the same mileage. On another note, every single model of vehicle on the market has its problems and this is where the Internet can be a good thing and bad. I'm sure every single owner of a new Ford that has visited an RV or diesel forum is now scared that they have a ticking time bomb because of 5 reports.
IF the definitive reason for HPFP failure is the lubrication value of US diesel, there are additives for that, dozens of them.
Just add and drive but worrying won't stop a problem from happening. It did not stop my 6.0L from blowing head gaskets. It didn't stop my wife's Mercedes SUV transmission from destroying itself or the air ride system from going out 2 months before that.
Like one has put it before; we buy these trucks that are priced like a big nice Lincoln so we drive them like and expect them to work like a big Lincoln but it is a large truck. I've yet to read about a failure from someone that said, "Man, I had the pedal pinned to the floor when such and such happened or I was towing twice my legal weight up an 8%grade when this happened."
I believe everyone should do their fare share of research before buying ANY vehicle no matter if it's $2,000 or $85,000. If my HPFP went out tomorrow I will still be driving it after it is fixed because I feel I purchased the best truck, I didn't trade in my 6.0 on another after the head gaskets went out for the same reason.
JMHO.

I know some things about the 6.0. Hope you heard the same. It was a proven platform but when Ford decided to put it in their trucks they purchased the motor only and put their own electronics and software on them. They also pumped the power up about 40 percent from navistar's production model to compete with dodge and chevy. So ford was a tuner like the customers you talk about. Ford found the week spots by doing this like the head gaskets. Ford did cover some of these repairs. But they also tried to deny some to save money. Was that fair in any way to the customer.

My truck is bone stock. The trailer I will be towing is only 8,000 lbs. So I am not putting any undo stress on this truck. You mention additives. Ford has stated in a tech bulletin for the mechanics to use to help them deny warranty, that additives can be a cause of failure of the HPFP. They have covered their bases on canceling warranty. You would be OK paying for a repair knowing you did everything required including using fuel from high volume truck stops and your brand of fuel additive? Even though Bosch states the service life to be 1000 hours using that truck stop fuel. Oh by the way don't tell the tech you are using a fuel additive unless it is Ford PM22A Because there is no other additive approved for the Ford, NONE! Again there bulletin states additives can cause the failure.

The plain fact is these pumps are not designed to work with our fuel. Ford not paying claims that will not end up costing them much at all after they make Bosch pay for them is troublesome. Are they worried about a huge increase in failures?

Most owners do not trick out their trucks, that is a small percentage of owners.

If this HPFP goes out on me and ford doesn't cover it, I will not be able to fix it. It will have to be sold for scrap and I pay the loan off over time or I pay to have the scrap heap towed home and it sits in my garage for years while I make payments on it, not being able to use it. Not my idea of a good vehicle purchase!

 

[lwmcguir]

In our area there have been zero fuel related problems. However most of the folks here are very familiar with diesels over many years and most likely don't do anything that would cause problems. Certainly there are some failures that just happen. If you look at the data on fuel additives you will find some of them actually do reduce lubricity. There is very little data so if you have a Ford use theirs. Also be sure to put the Urea in the correct tank.

 

[ricatic]

While there are some high mileage trucks out there, they are the exception not the rule. Their success comparisons are as relevant among trucks as the discussion about the average lifespan of man. One guy smokes all his adult life, imbibes regularly of alcohol and still lives to 90 plus years old...we all know a guy like that one. Then you have the guy who is a marathon runner, eats and drinks only the healthiest of foods and beverages and drops dead at 35 years old.

These fuel pumps are similar. More unexplained failures are starting to appear. Is it a crisis...not yet...but there is growing evidence that there is a problem with the Bosch CP4.x series HPFP's. Ford and GM, both using the CP4.2 series pump. have been included in the ongoing NHTSA investigation of the Bosch CP4 series pumps. Their answers to the inquiry are eye opening...and absolutely confirm the concerns voiced by Shelby...The poor US fuel with a lubricity standard of 520 scar is 12% below the minimum standard as published by Bosch. Remarkably, the 460 scar requirement published by Bosch is the Canadian standard for lubricity. The answers to NHTSA from GM and Ford, who have reported very similar numbers of failures, clearly show a significant reduction in HPFP failures in Canadian trucks. Is this coincidence? Not likely seeing that Bosch clearly states in their publishing's that 500 scar fuel can reduce pump lifespan to 1000 hours. My pump failed at 35,000 miles and right at 1200 hours...is this another coincidence?

Should Ford 6.7 owners panic...sell their trucks...put in a Cummins? Of course not. But they should be using a lubricity additive at every fuel fill. Ford PM22A is the only Ford approved additive. I have seen reports that Ford is now requiring dealers to add PM22A to every newly delivered truck. I have not seen published requirements for this from Ford but it is widely reported on the Ford sites.

Ford could have followed the policy of ALL the other manufacturers using the Bosch CP4.x series HPFP's. GM, VW, Audi and others are all covering HPFP failures under warranty. In all my research into this Ford/Bosch travesty, I have not found one single denied warranty claim from GM. VW has taken the high road as well...fixing their problem HPFP's under warranty. Ford's decision to abandon their customers is the reason for all the noise about their issues...and it is deserved...

Regards

 

[BC1of38]

I add two stroke oil and diesel kleen every fill up. My family has been doing this since the intro of LSD. Done in all heavy equipment and on road diesels we own.

On my tow rig, I also have stripped the emissions equipment (DOC, dpf, EGR)

Runs much cooler (egts don't go over 780 degrees towing in the mountains at 70 mph), and gets great mpg.

Ymmv.

 

[ricatic]

I add two stroke oil and diesel kleen every fill up. My family has been doing this since the intro of LSD. Done in all heavy equipment and on road diesels we own.

On my tow rig, I also have stripped the emissions equipment (DOC, dpf, EGR)

Runs much cooler (egts don't go over 780 degrees towing in the mountains at 70 mph), and gets great mpg.

Ymmv.

I, too, used to add TCIII two stroke oil to the fuel in my 2004 Ford 6.0. As late as 2007, a lubricity research project at one of the Ford sites showed the TCIII to work almost as well as lubricity specific additives. However, adding two stroke oils to the fuel used in today's emission's technology trucks is not a good idea. The chemical reactions released when the two stroke oil is exposed to DPF regenerations and DEF systems do not play nice with the sensors that work within the system...and warranty issues can arise...at Ford, warranty will assuredly be denied...

At this time, Ford's PM22A additive would be the only approved additive to be used in a Ford 6.7. With Ford's present HPFP warranty stance, use of any other product seems imprudent. Personal experience shows that Ford will require the owner to prove, at the owners expense, that the HPFP failure was not related to fuel quality or additive content. Caveat emptor

Regards

 

[westxsrt10]

'ricatic' I have always supported your truck problems over @ FTE. Thanks for your efforts to help bring up Ford's HPFP issues and solutions.

 

[porthole]

I add two stroke oil and diesel kleen every fill up. My family has been doing this since the intro of LSD. Done in all heavy equipment and on road diesels we own.

On my tow rig, I also have stripped the emissions equipment (DOC, dpf, EGR)

Runs much cooler (egts don't go over 780 degrees towing in the mountains at 70 mph), and gets great mpg.

Ymmv.

Since this thread is related to the 2011+ 6.7 this is not a usefull addition to the fuel. May even be of limited or detrimental use on a 09 GMC.

But since you brought it up where are you getting a 780 degree reading towing over a mountain at 70 MPH?

On my 06 DMax I ran 4" turbo back exhaust, EGR delete (real easy on a GM), intake, BD left side exhaust manifold, tuner and other stuff. Had two EGT probes, one in each manifold and the only way it would be possible to get a 780 temp running over a hill at speed would be if I put the EGT probe in the tailpipe.

And mileage was not much better.