Regen revisited

[Peteandsharon]

Hey guys,

I've posted before about my disgust with the whole regen process that my truck has to go through. Still can't believe that is the best they can do. Having said that, a more specific question for all of you who may have '08 or '09 trucks. Sometimes (maybe 50% of the time) the first sign that I have that the truck is in regen cycle is that I'm smoking the guy behind me with a big cloud of smoke. It only lasts for a few seconds when the regen cycle is starting. Then I see that the EGT temps go up to 1100-1200 degrees and I know I'm in regen. My question is about the smoke. It is extremely embarrassing and I just want to know if this is typical. Do you guys see the big puff of smoke when the regen cycle starts or is this something that should concern me.

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Rrloren]

I see no smoke at all on my Dodge. I would think puffing smoke negates what the system was intended to do. Is the end of your tailpipe clean or does it have some soot buildup? Mine is as clean as it was when new.
I have an Edge CMT monitor and it shows me when the truck is in regen.

 

[dbbls59]

My truck does not smoke when it starts a regen. Has yours always done this?

 

[jnbhobe]

I have never seen any smoke out of mine and the pipes are as clean as can be.

 

[donr827]

I have a 08 Ford F350 and have not seen any smoke when regen starts. I have made no mods to the engine or exhaust system.
Don

 

[Sandpirate69]

You may want get it checked. These new trucks should not put out smoke, even if you stomp on the accelerator.

 

[mattpopp]

I got to know my dodge dealer really well back in 07-08 with my first 6.7. Which ended up being a lemon. But one thing I remember is that a Cracked DPF will allow the pickup to smoke, but this was with every heavy accel or if you lugged the engine. Cracked DPF was common on the early 6.7.

Now on the next 6.7 I did the DPF delete when it first came out near the end of 08. Worked great until received a new ECM Flash from Dodge a few months later. The pickup would go into regen even with the stuff off. When that raw diesel hit the exhaust manifold then pipe it was a massive white cloud behind me. It was horrible.

My question to you is it white or black smoke?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 HD

 

[rjr6150]

Not a bit of smoke at all. Might check to see if you have the latest flash which came out about 2-3 years ago. Your Ford dealer can check this for you.
Or with your vin can have a friend of mine pull an oasis report on your vehicle.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Hmmmm. A couple of points. The smoke only comes at the beginning of regen. It does not come under load or while accelerating hard. I can't say for sure that it has always been like that but it has been for a while anyway. At least for the last year. And again, I don't believe it happens every regen but it does happen enough so that I dread being in heavier traffic when it kicks in. And, again, it smokes for maybe the first 10 seconds or so of regen then no more. And finally I can't say for sure the color. I'm pretty sure it is not black smoke but usuallly I see it out of the corner of my eye in the rear view mirror as I see the car behind me hit his brakes to put more distance between us. I'm guessing I need to talk to my dealer.

Thanks guys.

 

[brianharrison]

I never saw any smoke from my 08 F350 when I had the DPF and regen cycle still happening. Once off power train warranty I added a programmer and deleted the DPF - best thing I ever did - now I do not get 1200F exhaust temps running through my turbo. Worst thing for any system.

Sounds like you have a digital gauge or tuner to see the 1200F EGT temps. If something is contaminating the DPF and burning off at the start of a regen then that might explain the smoke. Oil through a potential turbo oil seal would burn bluish white; I cannot imagine a coolant leak into exhaust (EGR coolers) would stay around in the DPF at normal op temps of 400-800F, so should not contribute to any smoke when raised to 1200F.

If you are still on power train warranty I would take it in.

Circle back and let us know I am curious.

Brian

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks Brian,

I will let you guys know where this goes. The thing that seems weird to me is that the smoke shows up before the temperature climbs that high. It literally is my very first signal that the regen is starting. It takes a little while after that for the temp to climb that high. And yeah I have a digital gauge to monitor EGT among other things.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Turns out that this is not just my problem. I googled "white smoke during regen" and there are numerous threads both on the Ford and Chevy forums. In fact, some of them describe my problem to the smallest detail, including the embarrassment at fogging the guy behind them. Unfortunately I haven't read anything where there is a resolution. There are suspicions about a CAC (whatever that is) or a dPF sensor but no definitive answer.What I find interesting is that several of them talk about having the problem after a reflash of their sotware. Specifically the reflash where the display that used to say that you were in regen no longer stays on. It now comes on very briefly and then goes away. I had that same reflash. I can't definitively make that connection in terms of the smoke but I did have the reflash.

One other common thing is that some of them go to the dealer and of course they cannot reproduce the problem. That is becoming the story of my life with this truck. I've also been dealing with a tapping sound behind my dash which everyone seems to think is a blend door actuator issue. But every single time I bring it in, for whatever reason, they can't reproduce it. I even recorded it on my iphone but no service until they can make it happen themselves. Anyway, that is where this is. I still plan to take it to the dealer in the next week or two.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Found this video. You can see why it would be embarrassing.

TheDieselStop.Com Photo Hosting - Regen belching smoke

 

[brianharrison]

Hi Pete,

The CAC is the Charge Air Cooler and there was a TSB on replacement for symptoms of white smoke in exhaust (for early Job 1, prior to Oct 2008 build) - essentially water collecting in the CAC and blowing through to exhaust in slugs. Here is a link on on the forums with TSB listed. Start at post 4 and the TSB in in post 5.

I just had the actuators replaced (at my nickel) on the RH and centre blend door and it solved my ticking isssue - they were able to replace it without taking the dash out so the cost was a bit less. Unfortunately the TSB diagnostics for the blend door actuator issue is "greater that 15F temp diff between left and right sides - not "noise coming from actuators". Ford does not reimburse dealers for warrantly work if the part that is pulled out is not defective - ie completely broken.

Brian

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks Brian. I'll take a look at the TSB. After my post I did some research on the CAC and saw some verbiage on the TSB. Unfortunately I have also read that several people said that did not solve their regen smoke problem. The build date for my '08 was early '08 so I would definitely fall in that timeline so I will inquire about that though. You mentioned that you ended up paying for the blend door actuator on your nickel. If you don't mind can you give me a rough idea about how many nickels actually left your pocket? I'm not sure it will ever come to that because I can never get it to happen while they are listening but just in case a miracle happens I'd like to know roughly what we are talking about. Thanks again for your help.

Pete

 

[mmomega]

If you have a dealer you trust I would just take it in to them if you believe it is close to a regen.

What are you using to see the EGT's ? Analog gauge or Digital like an Edge CTS?

Any mods at all on the truck? You may have covered this and I missed it.

If you're truck is out of warranty, personally I would suggest to just get rid of the DPF and EGR. The lifespan of the DPF is around 120k then you're looking at $2-3k to replace it.

 

[Peteandsharon]

If you have a dealer you trust I would just take it in to them if you believe it is close to a regen.

What are you using to see the EGT's ? Analog gauge or Digital like an Edge CTS?

Any mods at all on the truck? You may have covered this and I missed it.
If you're truck is out of warranty, personally I would suggest to just get rid of the DPF and EGR. The lifespan of the DPF is around 120k then you're looking at $2-3k to replace it.

Yup, I use the EDGE to monitor EGT, coolant temp etc. The truck is past the 36,000 basic but I purchased the extended 100,000 mile warranty. Also, when I had my initial disaster with this truck when I first bought it, Ford threw in the 200,000 mile warranty which is just for main drivetrain items. So, I wouldn't want to do anything with the DPF until after the 100,000 mile mark. I currently just hit 50,000. No modes whatsoever. As I stated in a previous thread, because of my early tragic experience with this truck, where I fought Ford over fixing the engine vs. replacing the engine/truck I don't do anything to give Ford an excuse to play with me. So along the same lines, no mods until I cross that magic 100,000 mile mark. As to knowing when the next regen will take place, I haven't a clue how to know that. I have seen no discernable pattern to this so it's always a birthday surprise.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Well it took a while but I finally brought the truck in to have the regen issue looked at. Had some distractions like a shorted out alternator which came up first and took my time and money. But I needed to have the fuel filter changed anyway so I used that opportunity to have them look at the regen issue. I'd had a couple more mosquito fogging incidents in the meantime. Well, pretty much as expected I was told that "some white smoke during regen is normal". He even gave me the standard printout of what to expect during regen. I struggled to explain that this wasn't just the normal increase in smoke that you may expect. That now people scatter behind me and pass me with the one finger salute. I tried to tell him that up until I had a previous PCM flash (the one that changed how the regen message is displayed on the dash - where it no longer stays on the display) I never saw any smoke during regen. I tried everything I could to express to him that if this was normal then some engineer should never work in the industry again. Of course I may as well have been talking to my dog. He's a much more patient listener. Hd did do a PCM reflash. There was apparently a newer one than the one I had. Having said that, he was not optimistic that this reflash would have much to do with the smoke. So there it is. We'll see what happens but it seems I have a new feature that Ford is offering. Maybe I can make some extra money when mosquito season comes around.

 

[brianharrison]

My apologies Pete - I just re-read the thread after your update post today. I previously missed your question regarding the actuator replacement costs. I replaced the RH temp door actuator, floor mode door actuator, and recirculation door motor actuator. These can be replaced by removing radio, temp controls, glove box, air bag and not having to remove whole dash assembly and full heater core. The LH temp door actuator requires this latter step (full dash and heater core removal). For this work parts were $100 (3 actuators) and labor was 3.75 hours (shop rate 98/hr, equals 370). All in was just under $500, with shop supplies . I have the full dual automatic climate control with supplemental heater. Yours may be a little different if your set up is different - ie no dual temp, etc. Hope this helps, Brian

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks Brian. No problem at all. My actuator issues have sort of faded into the background for the time being. Maybe as we get more into spring I'm using the heat less and less but the issue is much more sporadic now. I hear it from time to time but not nearly as often now. I still make it a point to tell the tech to listen for it whenever I have it in the shop. But unless it comes back like it was before I'm going to put that one aside for now. Just spent almost $400 because when I picked it up from the airport after leaving it for a few days all my dash lights went out on the night drive home and the voltage in the electrical system started spiking to about 18 volts. Went straight to a dealer and was told the next day that the alternator wiring harness had shorted out. The only thing they could think of was maybe rodents were up there chewing on the wiring. But since it is garage kept and there is no sign of nesting in the engine, I doubt that one. But anyway, there has been no shortage of issues to keep my attention and my credit card out. Thanks again for getting back to me.