Ford 6.7L HPFP failures w/o warranty

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mmomega

mmomega

AnyTimer
mmomega said:
I'm at 19,700 and I changed the oil and filters last at 17,300. No problems to be seen yet. I have not done another drain yet, was going to check this week before our next trip.
Click to expand...

Sitting at just under 22,000 miles with no problems. Could be me but it seems like the mileage is getting a little better, like the engine is finally getting 'broken' in. On a 5hr trip from Dallas halfway through Louisiana on HWY20 which is a bit 'hilly' I averaged 16.6 driving anywhere between 75-85mph. They recently raised the limit around here to 75.

Have a trip to GA/SC coming in 2 weeks so we'll see what she does towing now, I don't expect any difference as it usually stays around 11mpg for the most part.

I'll have to post back later about the R4Tech. I've been having mostly the same feelings as Porthole. It seemed quite a dramatic difference for the better after I installed, I think I wanted it to be better than it was/is.
I haven't had most of the problems he has but if I had to sum the system up..... it is ....better than stock and I'll leave it at that. You aren't going to catch me recommending this to everyone I come across.
 
S

Shelby-GT-500

Member
Did a fuel drain. No particles and no water. I am keeping samples and dates just incase.

Found out there are a few more people having the same issue towing as me. At 60-65 towing up a 6% grade if I punch it it will not pick up any speed. I went to bully Dog to look at a gauge package and no tuner, to monitor EGT's. Found their towing vid and they stated at the end of the towing demo the Ford would not go over 58 towing a load up hill stock. The speed limit was 65. They had to use their tow tune to to get to 65 and maintain it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XCJxygeJYo&feature=youtu.be
 
B

bdb2047

Well-known member
I have 30,000 on mine about 2/3 towing .No probems towing just home from a 7 month trip all kinds of terrian and no issue w/6.7.Drain fuel filer 4-6 weeks no water,due for replacement now will look for particles.Am having an issue with shifting when in tow mode occasionaly it will not shift out of 1st gear have to turn off tow to get it to shift.It has happened 3-4 times and I can not due anything to duplicate it.
 
pegmikef

pegmikef

Well-known member
bdb2047 said:
I have 30,000 on mine about 2/3 towing .No probems towing just home from a 7 month trip all kinds of terrian and no issue w/6.7.Drain fuel filer 4-6 weeks no water,due for replacement now will look for particles.Am having an issue with shifting when in tow mode occasionaly it will not shift out of 1st gear have to turn off tow to get it to shift.It has happened 3-4 times and I can not due anything to duplicate it.
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I have had that happen once or twice and in both cases it was in areas where I had to drive several blocks at very low speeds (10-15 mph) in campgrounds. It only happened when I had already driven the route a couple of times. Has never happened to me under normal driving conditions.
 
mattpopp

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
mmomega said:
New Duramax's uses the exact same fuel pump.
I researched all 3 for a good year before buying a 2011 truck and each had their own problems. Proper regular maintenance goes a long way with any diesel and many people push the limits beyond what they should. Not taking up for Ford because I have one but the driver should do their part as well.
Things do happen and it sucks when it does, especially when you happen to have a bad part.

Actually read a post on a duramax forum where a member had his truck die, took it to the dealership and it the fuel pump had failed. Dealer replaced all seals, pump, gaskets and everything was fine again.
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If I am not mistaken the Ford uses the CP4 (4 piston) as the D-Max uses a CP3 (3 Piston). That CP3 is very similar to the Dodge 6.7 CP3.

My understanding there is not a single issue with the CP4 pump. the issue is that it was designed to run off of the European Diesel as it is cleaner vs the US diesel that is slightly more dirtier. The harsher fuel is killing the Ford CP4 that they are using.
 
L

lwmcguir

Well-known member
Shelby-GT-500 said:
Did a fuel drain. No particles and no water. I am keeping samples and dates just incase.

Found out there are a few more people having the same issue towing as me. At 60-65 towing up a 6% grade if I punch it it will not pick up any speed. I went to bully Dog to look at a gauge package and no tuner, to monitor EGT's. Found their towing vid and they stated at the end of the towing demo the Ford would not go over 58 towing a load up hill stock. The speed limit was 65. They had to use their tow tune to to get to 65 and maintain it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XCJxygeJYo&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...
Haven't found that to be an issue so far.
 
R

ricatic

Well-known member
mattpopp said:
If I am not mistaken the Ford uses the CP4 (4 piston) as the D-Max uses a CP3 (3 Piston). That CP3 is very similar to the Dodge 6.7 CP3.

My understanding there is not a single issue with the CP4 pump. the issue is that it was designed to run off of the European Diesel as it is cleaner vs the US diesel that is slightly more dirtier. The harsher fuel is killing the Ford CP4 that they are using.
Click to expand...

...absolutely incorrect...both the 2011 and 2012 GM's and Ford's use the Bosch CP4 HPFP. It has two pistons, not four...I have one in my garage if there is any question about the accuracy of my statement...and you are right...it is not a single issue, there are several areas that contribute to the failures.

An interesting sidebar to this story is that Volkswagen has just released a memo extending all Bosch CP4 equipped diesels to 10 years/100,000 miles due to manufacturing deficiencies...their words not mine. This confirms what my neighbor, a warranty/recall engineer at VW told me a couple of weeks ago...

Regards
 
R

ricatic

Well-known member
Yes, they have put it in writing. Here is a snip from a post on my 103 page thread over at RV.net. I would love to post this at FTE but because it involves VW the mods would lose their minds...

NinerBikes wrote:
x.gif

In a show of support, Volkswagen has announced that the HPFP and Injectors on their T3 Touaregs, from 2011 on, have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty for the drivetrain.

I received this email yesterday.

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your contact to us.

The High Pressure Fuel Pump and the intake manifold in your Touareg is covered under the Powertrain Limited Warranty for ten years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the in-service date of August 25, 2012, for manufacturer shortcomings in workmanship and materials.

I hope you are beginning to enjoy the unique driving experience your Touareg was built to provide. Should you need further assistance, our Customer CARE Center is available Monday through Friday 8 AM to 6 PM, local time, at (800) 822-8987 or by email through the “Contact Us” page of our website.

Sincerely,



Linda M.
Customer CARE Advocate

Regards
 
R

ricatic

Well-known member
porthole said:
Wow!
Click to expand...

Duane

I can not begin to express how much I feel vindicated by this announcement from VW. I was told by my neighbor that something was in the works with the Bosch CP4.X series pumps. His job as an engineer in VW's recall/warranty division makes him an expert in this arena. He does not have much good to say about the Bosch CP4.X pumps...and he is well aware of Ford's problems.

It is too bad that a decent discussion can not take place over at FTE regarding this latest revelation regarding this HPFP. The mods would have a cow if I posted the VW info...even though the internals that fail in these pumps are identical except for the number of pistons...

Regards
 
S

Shelby-GT-500

Member
Rick,

I posted a question and link to the rvnet thread regarding the VW at FTE. I think you commented on it. A few people defended me for posting the question and the thread stayed open. You could probable post this if you wan't there. But you are right a number of them will be upset even if it is good info!

Thanks
 
R

ricatic

Well-known member
Shelby-GT-500 said:
Rick,

I posted a question and link to the rvnet thread regarding the VW at FTE. I think you commented on it. A few people defended me for posting the question and the thread stayed open. You could probable post this if you wan't there. But you are right a number of them will be upset even if it is good info!

Thanks
Click to expand...

This letter is hot, hot ,hot off the VW presses...Duane already snipped the quote into your thread at FTE and I stirred the pot a bit...wonder if I will get another timeout????

It never ceases to amaze me that even when faced with the irrefutable evidence that the single piston Bosch CP4.1 pump used in the VW has same internals as the CP4.2 twin cylinder pump in the Ford and GM, the state of denial over there is huge...

Regards
 
Toy1Ton

Toy1Ton

Toy 1 Ton
after reading all of this I called the dealer this morning and cancel my order until they get this strighten out, was hard to do I really love the truck and was all excided and I had gotton a dam good deal on it I quees I will keep driving my 04 6.0,but I will have a new tow truck by spring weather that will be a Ford or GMC well wait and see
 
R

ricatic

Well-known member
Toy1Ton said:
after reading all of this I called the dealer this morning and cancel my order until they get this strighten out, was hard to do I really love the truck and was all excided and I had gotton a dam good deal on it I quees I will keep driving my 04 6.0,but I will have a new tow truck by spring weather that will be a Ford or GMC well wait and see
Click to expand...

Unfortunately...Ford has shown no signs of changing their singular to the industry policies regarding HPFP failures in particular and fuel system issues in general. My truck was back in the shop last week for another CEL. This time it was a failed EGR cooler. I am waiting for the parts tro arrive before I take the POS in for repairs. This truck is the worst example of quality that I have ever owned...and I owned a 6.0 Ford...

I spoke with the tech that diagnosed my truck. He had no idea of all the issues I have had with the truck...or my reputation as a Ford 6.7 sales killer. His unsolicited opinion stated that he still would buy an old 7.3 powered truck before any other later model Ford. I eagerly await the spring season...GM will have their new crew cabs out and Dodge will have DEF...someone will be selling us a new truck...and after 59 years of Deb traveling and owning only a Ford, the new truck will not be a Ford....how sad is that story...

Regards
 
codycarver

codycarver

Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Toy1Ton said:
after reading all of this I called the dealer this morning and cancel my order until they get this strighten out, was hard to do I really love the truck and was all excided and I had gotton a dam good deal on it I quees I will keep driving my 04 6.0,but I will have a new tow truck by spring weather that will be a Ford or GMC well wait and see
Click to expand...

You cancelled after reading this thread??? or was it after doing all your research. Plenty of folks driving these trucks with no trouble at all. After reading this thread (and every service since) I ask my service manager about this pump thing, I'm told aside from a few DEF pumps they have had no fuel system problems. I suppose they could be lying but why??? already bought the truck. I also visit with guys (in person) that are driving them and haven't been told of any of significant problems yet.

I get asked all the time how I like my truck and the answers always the same "So far so good, check back in 100,000 miles or so"

BTW I'm guessing if you do a search for problems with the other brands you'll find they have there share too.
 
L

lwmcguir

Well-known member
Just had my 2011 serviced today at the local Ford dealer. Not one failure yet so it has to be a rare thing and there are way more Fords out there in severe service than any other brand.
 
wingfoot

wingfoot

Well-known member
Ford 6.7L HPFP failures w/o warranty

After reading numerous post about problems with Ford's fuel pump here and several other forums, I decided to post an excerpt from Fords owners manual. This information can be found on page seven (7) in the Ford diesel supplement owners manual.
I have posted a C/P that depicts Ford's admission on the possible getting water/contamination in your fuel. What puzzles me is that Ford admits owners can get contaminated fuel. Also, they state that their "Fuel filter/water separator" will remove water from the fuel.
All that being stated, how can Ford deny warranty coverage. Does their denial for warranty consideration indicate a deficient filtering system? And they are gong to hold owners responsible for fuel contamination. As a side note, GM is covering owners on the problem and they have had their share of problems. They too use the same Bosch HPFP. So, I would challenge Ford's denial for warranty consideration.
I have not had any problem yet, but if I do, I will assuredly challenge Ford on denial because of "water in the fuel".

Water in fuel:
During refueling, it is possible for
water-contaminated diesel fuel to be
pumped into your tank. Your
vehicle’s fuel system is equipped
with a fuel filter/water separator to remove water from the fuel. The
water in fuel light will illuminate when the DFCM has a significant
quantity of water in it.
If the light illuminates when the engine is running, stop the vehicle as
soon as safely possible, shut off the engine, then drain the DFCM. Refer
to Fuel filter/water separator in the Maintenance and Specifications
chapter of this supplement for the drain procedure. Allowing water to
stay in the system could result in extensive damage to, or failure of, the
fuel injection system.
Note: Air will enter into the fuel system if the DFCM is drained while
the system is running. The engine will not operate properly if air enters
the system.

WARNING: Do not drain the DFCM while the engine is running.
Fuel may ignite if the separator is drained while the engine is
running or the vehicle is moving.
 
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