2015 Goshen Rally - Discussion Thread

[Paul & Nan]

Now I feel better as I was lamenting about our 2700 mile round trip.

Hey Mike, we have done it couple of times from TX, a good time will be had. Jim does a wonderful job of getting it together. It will be great. See you guys soon.

 

[jbeletti]

Jim, let me start with I appreciate all you do.
Do you find it acceptable that the entire desired sites in northwest section were gone in less than an hour and most FHU 50 amp site in two hours

Kirk - this event is popular. The NW section is the newest at 15 or so years old, so there's a perception that it's "the place to be". Given these two points, it's understandable that there will be a rush on these sites. So yes, I find it acceptable that this area sold out quickly. I liken this to a popular sporting event or concert at a venue with sections. Some sections are more popular than others. Therefore it stands to reason that the most popular sections sell out first.

Who got those sites?

The attendee directory can be reivewed here. It includes site numbers.

What’s wrong with system and venue?

Not sure I follow you here. If by "system", you mean the registration system, I don't feel anything is wrong with it. I do wish it sent emails out faster - but I understand why it doesn't. There were lessons learned here by me. Going forward, we plan to get the registration link out via email "days" in advance. The registration will still start on a specific date at a specific time, but by knowing even earlier what the link is, one can be prepared sooner.

In terms of "What's wrong with the venue?", the venue is a 4H Fairgrounds - a private entity. They are goverened by a large board. Their primary focus is 4H and an annual fair. While they offer camping, it's not their primary focus. As such, improvements like site upgrades 30 amp to 50 amp, no sewer to sewer etc.) and site additions come very slowly.

Wouldn’t technicians and venders travel with greater attendance? I’m sure you will find an abundance of help from the great membership.

You may be newer to the national rally circuit and don't know the history here. Heartland does not have a service department with technicians per se. For the national rally, when held near the plant, Heartland constitutes a rally service team from hand selected plant workers. We disrupt Heartland's build schedule by pulling 20-30 workers off the lines to work the rally. While Heartland is willing to spend the money to have this team at the rally and supply a huge number of repair parts, it's just too disruptive to put this sort of thing "on the road". We did this in 2012 in Gillette, WY to give it a try. It went over very well with customers. It did cost a LOT of money to put this team on the road plus even more time away from the plants. For these reasons, Heartland prefers to do this only when the rally is held near the plant. So it's not a function of whether we can get 30 employees to drive their personal vehicles a longer distance - it's really a function of plant disruption first and incremental cost second.

As for vendors, when vendors have to drive from Elkhart/Goshen, to Goshen, it makes it pretty easy to get good seminar speakers. When they need to start justifying travel days, travel costs etc. - the situation changes.

Bottom line is if it was an easy job anyone would do it. You can do it and that’s why they pay you the big bucks.

Kirk

If you say so

 

[jbeletti]

Jim, as this rally grows, one option for the Goshen area would be to have other campgrounds act as satellite sites. There is plenty of parking outside the main rally hall, so folks could drive in for the day's events, come back for the evening. Not the ideal situation, but chapters could all be together and there are several good campgrounds in the area that can easily handle smaller groups. The most difficult part I imagine would be to coordinate the RV maintenance work.

Ken - I have considered just this sort of thing... Using the Fairgrounds as Rally Central but having attendees camped wherever in the county they wish.

Some pros that I see:
- It would help more people get 50amp/FHU sites (at other campgrounds outside the Fair property)
- Some other campgrounds may be further from train tracks
- Some other campgrounds may have nicer sites (paved pads, longer, hookups on the side versus at the back etc.)

As for some cons that I see:
- It will not get more than 76 rigs in the NW section
- We will lose quite a bit of attendance at seminars it may be deemed "just not convenient enough to drive over"
- Attendees will not likely save any cost as the Fair is probably lower in cost

Let's all keep the conversation going!

 

[porthole]

I do wish it sent emails out faster - but I understand why it doesn't. There were lessons learned here by me. Going forward, we plan to get the registration link out via email "days" in advance.

That seems like a good idea.

The email I received was received at 2:57 pm EST.

 

[tracks]

Kirk - this event is popular. The NW section is the newest at 15 or so years old, so there's a perception that it's "the place to be". Given these two points, it's understandable that there will be a rush on these sites. So yes, I find it acceptable that this area sold out quickly. I liken this to a popular sporting event or concert at a venue with sections. Some sections are more popular than others. Therefore it stands to reason that the most popular sections sell out first.


The attendee directory can be reivewed here. It includes site numbers.


Not sure I follow you here. If by "system", you mean the registration system, I don't feel anything is wrong with it. I do wish it sent emails out faster - but I understand why it doesn't. There were lessons learned here by me. Going forward, we plan to get the registration link out via email "days" in advance. The registration will still start on a specific date at a specific time, but by knowing even earlier what the link is, one can be prepared sooner.

In terms of "What's wrong with the venue?", the venue is a 4H Fairgrounds - a private entity. They are goverened by a large board. Their primary focus is 4H and an annual fair. While they offer camping, it's not their primary focus. As such, improvements like site upgrades 30 amp to 50 amp, no sewer to sewer etc.) and site additions come very slowly.


You may be newer to the national rally circuit and don't know the history here. Heartland does not have a service department with technicians per se. For the national rally, when held near the plant, Heartland constitutes a rally service team from hand selected plant workers. We disrupt Heartland's build schedule by pulling 20-30 workers off the lines to work the rally. While Heartland is willing to spend the money to have this team at the rally and supply a huge number of repair parts, it's just too disruptive to put this sort of thing "on the road". We did this in 2012 in Gillette, WY to give it a try. It went over very well with customers. It did cost a LOT of money to put this team on the road plus even more time away from the plants. For these reasons, Heartland prefers to do this only when the rally is held near the plant. So it's not a function of whether we can get 30 employees to drive their personal vehicles a longer distance - it's really a function of plant disruption first and incremental cost second.

As for vendors, when vendors have to drive from Elkhart/Goshen, to Goshen, it makes it pretty easy to get good seminar speakers. When they need to start justifying travel days, travel costs etc. - the situation changes.




If you say so

Jim, I appreciate your response and understand your hard work.

Thanks,
Kirk

 

[tracks]

Jim, as this rally grows, one option for the Goshen area would be to have other campgrounds act as satellite sites. There is plenty of parking outside the main rally hall, so folks could drive in for the day's events, come back for the evening. Not the ideal situation, but chapters could all be together and there are several good campgrounds in the area that can easily handle smaller groups. The most difficult part I imagine would be to coordinate the RV maintenance work.

Ken, that’s a great idea with attendance fees for Heartland activities at the 4H facilities.

Kirk

 

[jbeletti]

Ken, that’s a great idea with attendance fees for Heartland activities at the 4H facilities.

Kirk

So everyone is aware - at the beginning of the rally registration process, attendees choose their registration type. One of these is NO RV. When that is chosen, the attendee rally rate is $100 lower. We initially created this reg type a few years back when we had some wanting to join us at the rally but their rig had not yet been delivered or was in the shop or they lived in the same town as the rally and didn't want to drag the rig to the campground.

As this relates to this rally, anyone who requires:
- 50 amp power
- Sewer
- Paved pads
- etc.

Staying at a nearby campground and commuting into the rally location is always an option and perhaps one that we have not communicated well. I have noted this in my 2016 rally notes document to ensure we do better communicating this.

Keep all the feedback coming everyone - this only helps us improve our process.

 

[JohnDar]

Just a side question, Jim. Is the fairgrounds continuing to add/improve their sites? It seems that when we attended the 2011 Rally, they had recently installed the sewers in the South Campground. Perhaps by the 2017 rally, there might be more FHU sites, if they are.

 

[JJnVA]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I tried to keep this short, no luck, but want to share 3 important items......[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]First, I want to express much appreciation to Jim and Julie (and their helpers) for all they do to make the Rally a QUALITY event with reasonable cost and the many benefits of informative seminars, leisure time activities, meals, entertainment, repair service, unbelievable door prizes, vendors on site, discounts, opportunity for new friendships, renewing old friendships and sharing experiences. From what I saw on the Forum this year, they spent a great deal of effort in providing as much info as they could about all aspects of the upcoming rally. It will be helpful to everyone to check out the HOC Forum Rally Portal for the 2015 North American Heartland Rally as it has a wealth of info in the documents, articles, FAQ, and discussion threads. It will help you plan your time and prepare for the Rally.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Secondly, a suggestion to those who want to stay apprised of upcoming Rally information or any topic. The Forum has a great feature that works well for me. As soon as a thread is posted on a topic that I am interested in, I click on “Thread Tools” and then “Subscribe to this Thread”. I can click on the option to be notified immediately by email that a new post has been published. This way you don't spend a lot of time searching for new posts and you are kept up to date. Jim B. posted every time he had a new document or information on the 2015 Rally, and there were numerous entries on what the 2015 registration process was going to be.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Third, my DH and I really enjoyed the Elkhart 4H Fairgrounds for the two rallies we have attended there. It is a great venue for biking, walking, and touring around in a golf cart...easy roads to maneuver. Everywhere you go you will find HOC members visiting one another and greeting you as you pass by. We feel our camp site is just a place to park our rig for when we need to get some sleep and change clothes. The rest of the time we are on the go taking in all of the activities and sharing RV experiences with others around the campground. The Rally Hall is comfortable, air conditioned, and has room to easily accommodate our large group, even for dancing with the fabulous musical entertainment! AND, The reasonable costs for everything from campsite pre-rally to total rally package can't be found with any other venue. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We came to the 2011 National Rally as non-member, new Heartland Big Horn owners. We signed up to become HOC members before we left that Rally and headed back to Virginia having made new friends and feeling so much better informed about our Big Horn and RVing.
So, come experience it all, you will easily get hooked on Heartland Rallying![/FONT]

 

[TXBobcat]

I went to the attendance directory and downloaded the list into a XLS spreadsheet. It shows 215 attendees. I made a number of sorts on the list and when I sorted by site, it came up with 6 attendees with the site column blank. Is that an error or did they just not get an open site. I was thinking that there are 300 sites available. Would this be a problem that needs to be corrected or just no site available for the size of their rig?

This is not a complaint, just curious.

BC

 

[jbeletti]

Just a side question, Jim. Is the fairgrounds continuing to add/improve their sites? It seems that when we attended the 2011 Rally, they had recently installed the sewers in the South Campground. Perhaps by the 2017 rally, there might be more FHU sites, if they are.

Hi John,

They do continue to improve sites and add more - but it's a slow process. The improvement prior to the 2011 rally of 50 amp power and sewer to most of the South campground was huge. I too am hopeful that by 2017, even more W/E sites will be upgraded to sewer and more 30 amp sites will be upgraded to 50 amp and that even more sites will be added.

Since camping is not the reason this place exists, it's not their highest priority in terms of capital improvements.

I do want to continue the conversation of and build an awareness/promotion campaign around camping elsewhere and commuting into the rally location for those that need a higher level of assurance as to what ammenities their site will have. I TRULY want as many Heartlanders to come to this rally as possible.

I also want to recognize something Judi (JJnVA) mentioned. It is quite true that for a good many rally attendees, their rig truly is a place they go to, to sleep and change clothes.

On the other-hand, for another group of long-time attendees, they've been all over the area, they've been to many of the seminars we've put on and they place more value on the opportunity to hang out with their pals at their campsite. This is important to them and I recognize this and I happy they can do this.

This rally, like any rally or other social event will be what you make of it. My hope is that everyone who attends gets something great out of it

 

[jbeletti]

I went to the attendance directory and downloaded the list into a XLS spreadsheet. It shows 215 attendees. I made a number of sorts on the list and when I sorted by site, it came up with 6 attendees with the site column blank. Is that an error or did they just not get an open site. I was thinking that there are 300 sites available. Would this be a problem that needs to be corrected or just no site available for the size of their rig?

This is not a complaint, just curious.

BC

Bob - depending on who, there are a couple of reasons for being blank. In some cases, the attendee made an error during registration and likely used the back button to go back and change something. That caused their site to be given back, then they may not have noticed it. On Saturday, I phoned everyone that had a blank to advise them and then tell them what they needed to do to grab a site.

 

[clubmgr]

I went to the attendance directory and downloaded the list into a XLS spreadsheet. It shows 215 attendees. I made a number of sorts on the list and when I sorted by site, it came up with 6 attendees with the site column blank. Is that an error or did they just not get an open site. I was thinking that there are 300 sites available. Would this be a problem that needs to be corrected or just no site available for the size of their rig?

This is not a complaint, just curious.

BC

The missing sites are the Mobility sites. They all should be visible now. Thanks for the heads-up

 

[Bobby A]

That seems like a good idea.

The email I received was received at 2:57 pm EST.

Mine came in at 4:42pm EST, !!

 

[jbeletti]

A rally/site update current through midnight - 24-Feb

219 registrations
76 sites left

Of the sites left
51 are Full-Hookup (FHU)
15 are Water/Electric Only

Of the FHU sites left - most are 50 amp*

* Of the 80 total sites in the South Camping Area, only 20 of them are 30 amp power with 50 of them being 50 amp power

 

[kkamshop]

For those who have never been to the fairgrounds, I would like to add that the Gate C area has some shade, very park-like. It is directly south of the coveted northwest section, so also just a short distance to the rally hall. I do not believe we have ever used this area for the national rally.

 

[2psnapod2]

For those who have never been to the fairgrounds, I would like to add that the Gate C area has some shade, very park-like. It is directly south of the coveted northwest section, so also just a short distance to the rally hall. I do not believe we have ever used this area for the national rally.

I was just thinking the same thing. No sewer but they are just a short walk to a very nice shower house also.

 

[jbeletti]

For those who have never been to the fairgrounds, I would like to add that the Gate C area has some shade, very park-like. It is directly south of the coveted northwest section, so also just a short distance to the rally hall. I do not believe we have ever used this area for the national rally.

All true and like Kelly mentioned a nice bathhouse nearby. If someone wanted to be super close to friends in the NW - this is something to consider.

 

[2psnapod2]

Ok Jim, I never get any credit. Kelly has been sleeping for about 4 hours now!

 

[jbeletti]

Ok Jim, I never get any credit. Kelly has been sleeping for about 4 hours now!

Sorry about that Michael. Your usernames are one letter different and apparently, to me, your signature is invisible Sorry dude.