Lippert Warranty Doesn't Care about safety!

[SouthernNights]

When I changed to Michelins I had to remove my shocks for clearence.
Here is what I found on my BC and posted on a different thread.

"I never quite understood the shocks on this trailer. I took a protracter and measured the angle of all four. 2 were at 33 degrees from Horizontal (not Vertical), 1 at 32and fourth at 35. The most efective way from a pure dampening aspect to mount a shock is vertical. The longer the piston or shaft stroke and speed of the stroke enables the shock to control the unsprung weight (tire and wheels, hubs, brakes etc.). At 45 degrees, the effectiveness of the shock is negated. The stroke is greatly deminished both in travel and speed. Beyond 45 degrees I doubt the shock is doing anything other going for a ride."

 

[jmgratz]

I have seen the angle some of the shocks are mounted and not just on the HL RVs. It makes me wonder who are the so called engineering experts who calculate the effectiveness of shocks mounted at these cock-eyed angles. Maybe it is just an advertising gimmick so it can be said "our units have shocks on their suspensions". How about some suspension engineer weighing in here?

 

[shriver63]

Ok after reading this whole thread and about to order a new 2011 3850 Cyclone toy hauler I'm a little concerned. Does anyone make a toyhauler without a Lippert frame? If I order my Cyclone should I talk to the factory and ask them if the can put the right parts on the trailer from the factory in the first place?

 

[RoadJunkie]

I would probably contact (documented) Heartland and express your concern with a narrative that offers a solution to your concern; Namely, suspension that you would feel comfortable with, presumably based on content within this forum discussion. I suggest it's going to be difficult to convince Heartland that your concern is valid as they--hopefully--have engineering data that supports their design. I see this entire issue as being their responsibility to warrant their product and correct/repair, as required on a case-by-case basis, and not to change standard design based on individual request. That is, unless the consumer wants to pay for the upgrade that will give them piece of mind. I respect the problems others have had with their suspension and feel for their concern. I'm in a similar situation--picking up a rig soon--and I intend to pick up my rig, be observant of potential issues as revealed in these discussions, and address them as required. Oh, and never worry twice.

 

[SilverRhino]

Are Some More Likely Than Others ?

I've been following this and other suspension / frame posts since last June and have been trying to determine if:

1) The suspension / frame problem is related to a specific line of HL products ie: Landmark/Big Horn/Big Country etc. ??

2) If in a specific line, is it more prominent in a specific model ??

3) Is there any correlation between manufacturing dates and the issues ??

 

[potmcr]

I too had leaf spring issues. Brand new 2010 Cyclone 3950 toyhauler in July on first trip. Leaf spring totally disappeared and trailer went off track. When I looked in the mirror I was tracking about 8" into the lane next to me on the Brooklyn Queens Exp. What a place to break down. Thousands of dollars to repair same but all covered by warranty. I did loose the trailer for two planned trips and believe it or not, I am just getting the trailer back on Friday. Lost the axle on October. Lippert refused to upgrade to better axles also, and believe you me I asked for them.
I was told the torque specs from the factory were incorrect on the leaf spring shackle bolts. The new spec should be 90 ft lbs. Be sure to check your leaf springs.

 

[sunflower]

I agree totally about the shock angle,i saw this and it reminded me about my Citation 5 th.[2002]we had the axles done to ensure a level ride behind out dodge 4x4.the tech did it and as I watched did not put the shocks back on,he said they would not fit now.He was right,when I got home I bought new shocks and welded new frame brackets on verically as possible.There was no point in arguing just did it the right way.Having a shock horizontal does not dampen the vertical slamming or slow down the spring flex which contributes to spring damage,been there done that,also don't reuse shackle bolts,they stretch once for torque only.

 

[porthole]

on the Brooklyn Queens Exp. What a place to break down.

Even with a Mor/Ryde suspension I'd be leery of dragging my trailer through the city and definitely not with precious cargo in the toy box.

 

[beardedone]

Success - Well many thanks to Larry. As a result of his efforts I contacted Lippert and spoke with Andrew. There was no hesitation in his efforts to work with me. I fully described my situation and that the issue had to have started when the unit was still under warranty, also that it was just a short time out of warranty when it was actually discovered. It was only discovered because of information on this site. I felt that Andrew was fair and sincere in dealing with me and as a result we reached an agreement that was fair. I would like to thank everyone who helped me. My faith is being restored.

 

[caissiel]

I to. question the value of the shocks installed at the angle they are on my unit. I feel they should also be installed in a more verticle position to be more effective.

Here we have a lot of 3/4 ton trucks with no load breaking spring plies. That was the first thing I was told when I bought my first 3/4 ton truck and using it as a daily driver. The springs were mostly breaking on return stroke and good shocks were required on the rear of these 3/4 Ton trucks. Well I had no shock problems in 9 years of ownership and no spring problem neither. I was also told that the F250 main plies were bad cats for breaking so I backed them up with an additional Ply.

Well I had a previous trailer that broke spring plies on the opposite to slide side, I always blamed it on the the fact that it was the lighter side of the trailer, and again figured the shocks were to blame. But they were still good but installed at a 45 Deg angle. I always changed the springs in pairs, and the front opposite to slide side was the one to break first. To me the springs breaking has nothing to do with loading it has to do with the bounce back that they ride on rough roads.

The shocks do play an important part in this bouncing, and do not believe the air spring video, I watched about the shacking going on the spring ride suspension, its not that way at all, unless you have a very badly balanced tire. I to, have a cam on the trailer and its smooth ride all the time on the highway.

I am looking in the possibility to attach the shocks on the inside and boxed in so the belly cover may still be sealed, and change the angle. In addition I am looking to put some bumpers between the axle and frame in order to limit the spring travel so as not to turn the spring backward on heavy bumps, I figure that 2 " of travel is enough. Thats what we can get when the springs is on the underside of the axle.

 

[Larryheadhunter]

OK folks let's try to stay on point here. 4 things are quite apparent with Lippert products. Any axle and spring setup that is 6K axles with 3 leaf springs is suspect (as I haven't heard of 7K axle or spring problems), broken front running gear has caused issues, and frames and welds, shackles etc, have had intermittent problems, shocks are kind of useless at the angle they have been placed, and all these are products made by Lippert. Lippert was clear to mention they make products to HL specs, so hopefully HL management will step in here and defend themselves on these issues. I still feel strongly that all manufacturers should stand behind their products and it is absolutely ludicrous to hold the client responsible for their bad judgments, although HL and other mfgrs should take heed with all the problems that have irritated owners for the last couple years. Lippert should stand tall and inform their clients such as Heartland that they will only build safe and long lasting products and force them to adhere to safety standards, although I can't get straight answers to what these mysterious safety standards are.

Also, as Jim B correctly edited one of my posts, when you have a problem with Lippert products, call their customer service warranty reps first, then if you don't get satisfaction, try Andrew to gain satisfaction. That is for the good of all.

I personally believe based on a summary of posts in this thread and PM's to me, any HL RV that is 3055 or larger should have 7K axles and springs to be extra safe. Running gears need to be watched closely and if broken or not working properly, should be addressed directly to Lippert Customer service for repair and hopefully before warranty runs out. Frames and welds should be intermittently checked by certified Lippert or dealer technicians especially before the Warranty is expired. It's a given that the shocks are useless, the way they are more horizontal than vertical, but if upgraded to Trail Air CenterPoint suspension, there is no shocks used and it has gotten good reviews.

I will say Lippert has told me directly that they have been monitoring this thread daily, so they don't like to hear these problems either as it damages their reputation. I would be grateful for more feedback on results of repair of problems by Lippert to the owners satisfaction or dissatisfaction, rather than turning this thread into a technical fix it thread, like has been done over the shocks, and other Lippert products. This thread was specifically started to address Lippert's response to problems with their products, and their responses and results, as per beardedone has done. If you don't get satisfactory results with the Lippert customer service, call Andrew for an explanation. Someone very smart told me why go to the rear end when you go straight to the head. Just in the last month, I have gotten some very positive feedback that this thread is making a difference to solving many problems that are Lippert oriented. Lippert likes the negative feedback as much as poison, so everyone take a deep breath and please follow the suggestions I have brought forth. Then we shall see if Lippert and HL are seeing the light.

I can tell you that I personally am getting wonderful action from Lippert, and the West Coast technician is coming to my tow yard Feb 22nd to administer, install, and check out to all my complaints on Lippert products, as well as inspect every Lippert component. I accomplished this feat by being calm and straight forward about my Lippert problems during discussions with them, and I believe they really want to help, especially if you fall under their warranty period or even close. Good luck to everyone, now let's get more feedback from owners who have been dealing with, or are attempting to address their problems with Lippert. Save the techie fix it stuff for other threads I ask respectfully. If we stay focused, we will win as a group. Any other constant Lippert issues that I have left out, please bring to all our attention, once you have tried your best with Lippert. Thanks in advance. Just because other forums constantly criticize without getting results, doesn't mean that is the correct method, in fact it usually results in the opposite affect. Thanks in advance and let's hold those folks at Lippert and HL feet to the fire until the rigs are built better, safer and last longer.

 

[jnbhobe]

Just for information, I have 7K axels on my 3370. I had a flat LF spring and had Heartland look at it at the Goshen rally in 09. Lippert came in and checked on it in my campsite. On monday morning after the rally I took it to their shop where they replaced all 4 springs and installed wet bolts for $54.00. Great deal I must say !!! So you can still have a problem no matter what axels and springs you have. I had noticed my problem April of 09. JON

 

[beardedone]

As I mentioned just a few posts back I had satisfaction in dealing with Lippert over my issue and I can't complain. They did seem quite sincere and cooperative so good on them. All this points to one important thing for all of us. That is to be aware, read about and learn about the critical issues on your trailer, no matter who the manufacturer is inspect it regularly. For instance I was not aware about re-torquing the nuts on the spring hangers/plates (what the technical name is). It comes down to if is out of sight IT IS OUT OF MIND - not. We all have to be more aware so that we can all be more safe. Many thanks to Larry for all your help.

Maybe the moderator can move any unrelated posts and start their own thread, thanks.

 

[thomasinnv]

i too had problems with broken springs on my 2010 Sundance 3300RLB. now i am seeing excessive frame flex issues. Before anyone asks or assumes, yes i weighed my unit and i am within the GVWR. Heartland wants the unit back at the factory to repair, which i don't have a problem with and would actually prefer it that way i would be more comfortable that it is being done correctly. I am on the road right now for the next several months in the unit, which means unless i want to pay for motels for the next several weeks waiting for the unit to be shipped back and forth and the repairs to be done, i am going to have to deliver the unit myself. i just can't afford several weeks in a motel. I have faith that Heartland/Lippert will take care of what needs to be taken care of, and i will certainly let every one know how i am treated whether good or bad. people need to voice when these companies go the extra mile for their customers and not just when they fall short. Time will tell which one i will be.

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Just for information, I have 7K axels on my 3370. I had a flat LF spring and had Heartland look at it at the Goshen rally in 09. Lippert came in and checked on it in my campsite. On monday morning after the rally I took it to their shop where they replaced all 4 springs and installed wet bolts for $54.00. Great deal I must say !!! So you can still have a problem no matter what axels and springs you have. I had noticed my problem April of 09. JON

Jon,
I understand that suspension problems could happen to any rig, but most of the issues have come from 6K axles. Also, you have mentioned that you had the standard 6k axles for the Big Horn 3370 upgraded to 7K upon ordering, which I think was very smart. It just proves that it could happen to anyone, regardless of their axle size. I, also am upgrading next week to 7K axles and springs with the wet bolts, and adding the Trail Air Centerpoint suspension as well.

 

[Dave & Linda]

Going to have it done to my Bighorn....in May,2010.....Thx
Yorkie's...I would of thought a bit bigger dog.

Dave

 

[jbeletti]

Hi gang,

Larry asked me to add a link here to a Newer Thread by user Dragoon. His thread discusses his experience with Lippert.

Here ya go.

Jim

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Hi everyone. Jim put a link in from dragoon, so I thought I would copy it on to my thread for all to read. I want to be clear that I would like to see all experiences, both good and bad with Lippert, especially since I started this thread. I am pleased to report most everyone is getting better results from Lippert, including me. When all the work on my rig is completed by Lippert, I will post the results. C'mon everyone, don't drop the ball, let's hear from you! Here is Dragoon's post, which is also on his new thread:
Lippert DOES Care

Hi everybody,

Thanks to LarryHeadhunter's post, I was able to contact Lippert, about our springs and motor on our jacks. We have a 2008 BH 3400RL with 6k axles. Weight well within tolerances. Lippert had already replaced our front jack motor when the unit was 10 months old to us. About 10 months later, the new motor went bad just like the first one (hopefully this is not a pattern). The new motor ran better than the old one ever did, at first, then went bad again. Lippert sent a tech to us from Phoenix (we were in Lake Havasu City) to see if something else was the cause. He said the motor was bad. While there, I had him inspect the springs, he said the rear ones were flat and all would need to be replaced. He contacted the factory to see what they wanted to do. In the mean time we had moved to Ft. Mohave. Factory approved new motor and new springs. The tech made another trip to us, this time in Ft. Mohave and replaced the motor and springs, no charge to us.

We are pleased with Lippert's concern and willingness to work with us. We remain optimistic that our problems are solved. This may not be the case, but cannot fault Lippert for trying to resolve the problem to our satisfaction. The tech (Julio) was professional and caring.

Were the original specs by Heartland working with Lippert the problem, was there a break down in the steel manufacturing, I don't know. The fact remains, Lippert is/was willing to stand up when we needed them. I've seen a lot of negative concerning this on this forum. Just wanted to tell the other side of the story. Maybe all those with problems need to contact Lippert as was suggest in another thread. It worked for us. Attached is a picture sample of the before and after on one of our wheels.

Good luck to all and safe travels...​

 

[CAO]

I was asked to paste my post on this thread. I had started my own thread before I knew of this one.

My Cyclone is now back at the original dealer I bought it from (RV America Aurora Colorado) and is having the larger 9/16 u-bolts installed. I am skeptical this is going to fix my problem.

Has anyone had any problems with their Lipert axles. I have a 2010 Cyclone 3010. It had about 800 miles on it when the rear axle fell off of my rig in October in Durango Colorado. I had to leave it at the dealer in Durango for five months while Heartland shipped new parts. I was told by the dealer in Durango that the u-bolts had come loose and broke off causing the axle to fall off.

The axle u-bolts and leaf springs were replaced as well as some cosmetic damage. I was told that Lipert said blue lock tight needed to be used on the u-bolts to keep them from coming loose and I needed to check the torque periodically, and not to over torque them because the threads could stretch causing the u-bolts to loosen. I am a little confused. I would think the axle would need to have a second nut and or a locking nut not just lock tight. The rig is brand new and I was shocked when the axle fell off.

I picked it up at the end of February. I drove it from Durango to Grand Junction Colorado and in that trip I had to re-torque the u-bolts two times. I am a Commercial Motor Vehicle Inspector and I am all about preventive maintenance, but I don't think it is normal to have to re-torque the u-bolts that often. Now Lipert wants to send me a 9/16 inch u-bolt to replace the 1/2 inch u-bolt. Lepert said that should fix the problem.

I still have to get my rig from Grand Junction to Littleton Colorado where I live, but I am afraid to pull it over the mountains. On RV.Net I was told by another owner that they stopped using the Lipert axle on the 3010 and it now has a Dexter axle with the Dexter EZ Equalizer. One post said I should invest in the Dexter EZ Equalizer because my Lipert one is going to break and the bolt holes are going to oblong.

I just spent all my money on this rig I can't afford to be replacing axle parts to a different brand name.

What do some of you RV owners think I should do? I need help!

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Hi Cao,
Sorry about your Lippert axle problems, but this is the thread that Lippert management told me they are monitoring. If your buying dealer is not giving you satisfaction, then I suggest you contact Heartland Warranty Mgr. Jim Fenner, and if still not satisfied, then call Lippert Warranty and speak with one of the reps there. If you still don't like what's going on, then call Andrew, the VP of warranty at Lippert. He is cool down to earth guy and your case seems special. Your situation is incredible, and no axle should just fall off any rig in the first 800 miles. Didn't someone drive your Cyclone to your dealer from the factory? As far as leaving it at the Durango dealer, that's absurd to hold your rig in prison for 5 months. When I broke down in Oregon last summer if u read the original post on this thread. One call to Fenner, who gave me Lippert Warranty phone number, and Michael Locke, Lippert rep saw the cell phone pics of the disaster and immediately ordered replacement springs and u bolts etc and sent them over night. Les Schwab immediately upon receipt of the parts, spent 4 hours repairing it and off we went, 2-3 days behind schedule. Someone you are dealing with has their head up their rear ends.

You can find all the phone numbers right here on the forum in the portal section. You shouldn't have to replace your axles with another brand, so checking with Lippert Warranty should solve your problem. You also have a Heartland Regional Manager that you should contact and explain it all to him. 800 miles gives you the right to go crazy, and we all can feel your pain, Cao. Try some of these solutions and post your results, on this thread. Good luck. I think Lippert is listening better and hopefully offer you a solution costing you no $$, but get you back on the road again so you can enjoy your rig this summer with pleasure.