RESOLVED: 50 amp breakers tripping and warm

[busted2341]

Let me begin with it is only 70 degrees here. We have all three A/C's on, not necessarily running. The Soundbar on listening to music and the water heater and Fridge turned on. Our last item is a combo washer/dryer. This has been done for several times now, however this morning we have been popping the 50 amp main breaker. It is very hot to the touch. I thought the power control would shut done A/C's if the power allotment draw became too much? Also my main question is how hot should that breaker be? We have shut down everything except the refridgerator, 1 A/C and the washer. Breaker is still very hot to the touch but is staying on. Should I just reserve power a little more or how hot should that breaker get to the touch? I pulled the cover. No loose or arching wires that I can see. All is tight.....Now I am worried about starting the other A/C or running anything else? I can't remember breakers staying hot like this....

 

[jbeletti]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Frank,

On the control panel of the Power Control System, can you read the amp draw on L1 and L2? I think it's Down-Arrow 4-times to get to this screen:


Try different appliances at the same time and perhaps record how much more current each adds to L1 or L2. Maybe you can narrow this down to one of the legs. I also suggest you contact Heartland tomorrow and if you're up for it, call Precision Circuits, Inc. directly. I'm just not sure how "up" on this item Heartland is as it's very new to them.

 

[DocFather]

Re: 50 amp breakers

The breaker should NOT be hot! Are you at home or at a campsite? Either way, the most common cause of a hot breaker is loose screws (we all have a few) on the 2 wires on a 50amp double-pole breaker. That is where I would start.

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Ya, I think will need to call....who sets up the power control panel? Heartland or the dealer? I did just what you show and even though very few things are on, the panel shows everything on? Not sure if that is just set up or real time but It shows all A/C's on when they are not as well as Fireplace and water heater which are not....Total L1 is 27 amps with L2 1 amps for toltal of 28 or 27 it seems to fluctuate...I'm confused??

 

[jbeletti]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Frank,

Heartland does the programming and installation of the unit. The display panel reading that all these items are on when you know they aren't - is troubling.

Start with Heartland in the morning but don't hestiate to then call Precision.

Precision Circuits, Inc
2538 Wisconsin Ave
Downers Grove, IL 60515
(630) 515-9100 / tech@precisioncircuitsinc.com

 

[danemayer]

Re: 50 amp breakers

If you have a voltmeter, check the voltage at the outside pedestal to make sure L1 and L2 both read around 120V to neutral and to ground. Or if you have a Progressive EMS, check the display for voltage and amps on L1 and L2.

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

The PCS should be fine. found no paperwork in my packet but after talking to DocFather and some others I found the Website. My understand of the panel is if they say on it's good that means othing is turned off. I think I might have one of the fuses as week because the one fuse got hot. After awhile and some cooling everything seems to be good. Power at the pole is normal as well as readings inside. I guess running the washer for too long just heated up that side of the breaker, if that's possible. I would imagine that's why the breaker blow and why the Power Panel did not just move things as designed...I hope that was it though....I can't find anything else...

 

[fredwrichardson]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Ya, I think will need to call....who sets up the power control panel? Heartland or the dealer? I did just what you show and even though very few things are on, the panel shows everything on? Not sure if that is just set up or real time but It shows all A/C's on when they are not as well as Fireplace and water heater which are not....Total L1 is 27 amps with L2 1 amps for toltal of 28 or 27 it seems to fluctuate...I'm confused??

Heartland sets up the EMS and unless you are in a over current situation it will show that everything is on. It only shuts things off (shedding) if there is not enough current to power everything. With 27 amps on L1 and only 1 amp on L2 you are not going to see any shedding of appliances. Also at that amperage you should not be getting a HOT breaker. The breaker can handle up to 50 amps on each side (L1 and L2) for a total of 100 amps. I would check the connections and if they are tight look into replacing the breaker.

 

[wdk450]

Re: 50 amp breakers

If you want to verify what your power center is saying, you could get a clamp on ammeter to easily check the current draws.
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html

Also, as previously stated, circuit breakers should NOT get hot. In fact, a routine preventative maintenance job at the hospital I worked at, was to have the electricians scan the circuit breaker panels with an infrared thermometer device, looking for hot breakers. A circuit breaker is also an electrical switch, with electrical contacts that can arc and corrode when switching loads. This corrosion-heating-more corrosion syndrome is a cycle of deterioration that WILL eventually result in circuit breaker failure. Also, with digital and solid state electronics appliances, the low voltage and arcing electrical supply can cause erratic operation, or even cause failure of the appliances.

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

After reading about breakers I decided, since everything seems to be running fine, to feel check to the breaker. Looking at the two breakers, the breaker on the right is VERY hot to the touch while the other seems fine. With all said I guess the easiest thing to do would be to replace the one breaker with a new one. Shame on a 2 week old coach...

 

[wdk450]

Re: 50 amp breakers

After reading about breakers I decided, since everything seems to be running fine, to feel check to the breaker. Looking at the two breakers, the breaker on the right is VERY hot to the touch while the other seems fine. With all said I guess the easiest thing to do would be to replace the one breaker with a new one. Shame on a 2 week old coach...

Call Heartland Service with your VIN and tell them your story, and/or refer them to this thread. I am pretty sure they will send you a new breaker.

 

[branson4020]

Re: 50 amp breakers

I didn't see anywhere in this thread where you inspected the connection to that hot breaker. Remove the wire from the breaker and make sure its properly stripped, not partially broken, etc. and reconnect it.

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Gotcha...I checked to make they were tight but I didn't pull anything off...

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Ok...breakers are getting annoying. In the 80's here and at 5:20 p.m. Breaker popped with only 2 A/C's running and TV and SAT. Breaker hotter then ****. Can I just replace 1 breaker? Is it possible to have a weak breaker or something. Wire looks good but breaker just gets really hot and I am no where near 40 amps....Guess another call to Heartland since the repair man is coming out to fix the awning....Something has got to be making that breaker so hot....

 

[wdk450]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Ok...breakers are getting annoying. In the 80's here and at 5:20 p.m. Breaker popped with only 2 A/C's running and TV and SAT. Breaker hotter then ****. Can I just replace 1 breaker? Is it possible to have a weak breaker or something. Wire looks good but breaker just gets really hot and I am no where near 40 amps....Guess another call to Heartland since the repair man is coming out to fix the awning....Something has got to be making that breaker so hot....

Yes, it is possible to have a weak breaker and a hot breaker (due to internal contact deterioration). I have found through experience if a breaker blows frequently, it will keep blowing prematurely, even when the current load is within its limits.
As far as I know, these duplex breakers are mechanically mated together, and must be replaced in pairs. The good news is, according to this Home Depot listing, they aren't too pricey. http://www.homedepot.com/b/Search/N...0+amp+breaker?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5

 

[cookie]

Re: 50 amp breakers

I am no where near 40 amps. Something has got to be making that breaker so hot....

Yes, something is causing the heat. Did you verify the load with a meter? Could be that faulty breaker mentioned.
Did you check for heat on the wires? If they are not hot then just replace the breaker. It's a 10 minute job.

Peace
Dave

 

[busted2341]

Re: 50 amp breakers

I hate working with electricity but gonna get a breaker and replace. Looks pretty simple....I'll see what happens...An after thought...Why would the wires get hot. I never thought of checking those. That would indicate a much more serious problem....Wouldn't it....?

 

[wdk450]

Re: 50 amp breakers

I hate working with electricity but gonna get a breaker and replace. Looks pretty simple....I'll see what happens...An after thought...Why would the wires get hot. I never thought of checking those. That would indicate a much more serious problem....Wouldn't it....?

Wires that are mechanically intact (no reductions in circular area from squeezing or bending) should not get hot within their specified ampacities. Poor connections, or being connected to a component with heating issues (circuit breaker?), can cause wires to heat/discolor from conducted heat.

 

[cookie]

Re: 50 amp breakers

You are correct about the possibility of a more serious problem. That's why I asked about the 40 amp number that you mentioned. But I doubt you have that.
The breaker is in place to protect the wire from overheating. If it is getting hot then it is not doing it's job.
If there is an internal problem with it and there is some arcing going on, that will create heat.
When you do change the breaker be sure to disconnect from shore power and have your generator off. Physically disconnect the plug from the pedestal.
Be sure to get the screws on the breakers absolutely tight. If they are not tight you will probably wind up with the same problem you not have.
Let us know how the project turns out.

Peace
Dave

 

[Roller4tan]

Re: 50 amp breakers

Make sure you get the same form factor as the one you have. Write down the numbers off it or better yet take it with you to get the correct replacement.