Accident

[TeJay]

Thanks again to all. So far no new information and we don't expect to hear much for several more days. A lot of good information coming from many and it is food for thought for all of us. One suggestion was to bring the TT home. We did tow it about 1/4 of a mile to a tractor trailer salvage yard. I did think that I might try to tow it home but was not sure about the frame. Because neither set of stairs on the opposite side would come down I knew that the rectangular frame was changed into a parallelogram. There was a lot of unseen damage and I didn't want to risk loosing tires and or bearings. Also the right rear stuck out farther than the left rear. Towing a damaged trailer would be asking for trouble but the thought did cross my mind.

TeJay

 

[jmgratz]

TeeJay, sorry for the rotten luck. I know one of the first thing I would be doing is calling an attorney. Depending on the state insurance will only cover certain things. Since the 'accident' was admittedly not your fault an attorney could help you recover whatever the insurance doesn't and attorney fees should be borne by the offending party. I think the smart thing to do would be to contact an attorney who specializes in accident damage recovery. Good luck.

 

[TeJay]

Update,
Our camper was totaled. The insurance company paid it off and we will receive less than $2,000 and no trade-in towards a new camper. We recovered some expenses but we will have to go after his insurance company for anything else. In the settlement we lost our $500 deductible, $3,000 down payment, the $1,400 dollars we were charged for delivery and fuel costs which we will have to incur again when we get a new camper. That's $4,400 that was paid off in the settlement and we lost. We are going to contact his insurance next week per the advice of our insurance company. He believes we have a strong case for other financial settlements. I do have two questions. Besides some expenses we spent 80 hours or more getting the old camper ready. I fixed and improved countless items in the camper. Then we spent two awful days getting our stuff out of the wrecked camper, transporting it home, sorting, cleaning and storing that stuff in preparation for starting the whole process over in 6-8 weeks when the new camper arrives. All of this is the result of his poor judgement and careless actions. I know $$$$ does not solve all problems but it sure would make sleeping a little easier as we go through the next few months. Our insurance claims adjuster said that we are entitled to some $$$$ for pain and suffering. What about all the time spent getting the first one ready??? We will have to do that again and WE DID NOTHING WRONG. Because of no trade-in we are going to have to finance a larger amount to replace the old camper. How does one determine what is a fair amount for pain and suffering?? My first thought when we approach his insurance company is to list all items that we did not recover from my insurance then add an amount for the pain, suffering, time etc.,etc that was incurred. I will also indicate that this is a fair amount but if we are refused or low balled and have to take it to a lawyer then the amount doubles because we all know that the lawyers will take 30-40-% off the top. The driver of the dump truck has admitted to us, the police and our insurance company that he was at fault. He admitted that his head was turned to his left and he did not see us. Our insurance company said that he was at fault and is liable. He does not have a leg to stand on. I don't believe they will fight it in court and I hope that a softer approach might work but we can always play hardball if they want to but costs will double and they will loose in the end. Our insurance contact person said, "The police report weighs heavly in your favor." but that's all he could say. The 2 questions: How much is a fair amount and do you believe that a low key approach might work? At this point we are probably out $15,000 or more towards a new camper. That's not counting all the time and aggravation because we have to do it all again.
His insurance company did call us and I had to give a recorded statement explaining the accident. We were also advised to not sign anything from his insurance.

That's the latest information. I hope this information might help others in the future.
Thanks,
TeJay

 

[porthole]

You were not injured, pain and suffering is going to be a tough one.

Your insurance paid off within the terms of the policy, seriously doubt they will do anything else for you.

This sucks and I feel bad for you, but it looks like your only recourse will be to hire an attorney.

And always get a police report.


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[tmcran]

TeJay ,, man feel for ya. Would you mind naming your ins co?

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

TeJay, You would be better off getting an attorney to go after them on your behalf. I'm sure they can factor in all of your concerns. The police report is going to have to be done on your own due to the fact the accident was on private property. I had a situation last winter in FL a little old lady dinged our car in a Walmart parking lot. To the tune of $900. I could barely see the marks. Her insurance was awesome to deal with. I had to pick up the accident report form from a local sheriff and mail it in.
If you have the truck drivers insurance info, give them a call.

 

[wehavefun]

Te Jay,

I am not saying I know everything about insurance, but I have been in the towing, heavy duty truck parts and service and had a body shop for 26 years, if you document everything, speak very nicely with owner of dump truck and his insurance company, explain your position DO NOT. Threaten the insurance company with an attorney. Do not ! I can not stress that enough, they have attorneys on the payroll you will then need to hire a lawyer who will get more then you in the end, I have seen it a hundred times, many times most attorneys will not take on a small claim( less then 20 k) many times this can be settled out of court, going to court is expensive on both sides!

Don't expect to retire but get your point across in person if possible and then writing, however once you set a price in writing you can't raise it
!

If you want to call me and discuss further just pm me I will give you my number, I am experienced with dealing with insurance companies and I also own my own trucks and most companies don't want to be sued or involved in legal action, business is hard enough, don't look to get rich, just recover your losses, also have receipts available for extras and don't get crazy.
Sorry about mis spellings and grammar smart phone not so smart

Brian

 

[57chevyconvt]

TeJay,
If I were you, I would take Brian's advice and let him help you with the details of how to approach the insurance company in achieving a positive result with the dump truck driver's insurance company. BTW - Isn't it great to have help from your forum buddies in time of need! I have learned to rely on this forum for a lot of great advice.
Hope you have a successful outcome with your settlement. Thanks for sharing your experience with this situation, as bad as it is/was, the rest of us have and can learn a lot from what happened in your case.
Jim

 

[danemayer]

Tejay,

I'm guessing that your insurer is relying on the term "Actual Cash Value" to determine the payout. My understanding of that is that's the price an informed buyer would pay for a comparable used trailer on the open market.

The NADA website shows (without adding any options) a "low retail value" of $16,000. (NADA Definition: A low retail unit may have extensive wear and tear. Body parts may have dents and blemishes. The buyer can expect to invest in cosmetic and/or mechanical work. This vehicle should be in safe running order. Low retail vehicles usually are not found on dealer lots.)

I can understand that the insurer might argue that you can buy a comparable used trailer locally, so no delivery cost reimbursement would be made.

So all that to say that $4400 and $16,000 seem pretty far apart for trailer valuation. Some people say the NADA values are too high, but what else is there? Did they find someone selling a 2011 NT 24RBS for $4400 in your area?

Did they explain their valuation?

 

[porthole]

Some people say the NADA values are too high, but what else is there?

There are several value guides that dealers use. I have yet to see a New Jersey car dealer use the NADA book. And the books they use ALL have lower values then the comparable NADA specs.

Police reports, always a key piece of info. If the officer on the scene says they don't do reports for private property I think I would request a superior to respond.
Maybe the state your in has that restriction, but I have seen many times in my town LEO's tell victims that they don't do reports for incidents that either have a small dollar value or are on private property. They don't want to do the "wood", their slang for the paperwork.

 

[porthole]

Tejay - you never mention where you were, just a service station. Sounds kind of large, was it on or off a highway? Local PD or State PD?

 

[jmgratz]

If I were in your shoes I would contact an attorney. Many attorney take on cases such as yours on a contingency meaning you will not have to pay anything unless they recover something. They can take their fee out of the recovery and yes many times the offending party will have to pay your attorney's fees. So that means you keep the recovery and the attorney fees will be paid by the other party. Discuss this with an attorney and you may find it is not expensive to you at all. Also many attorneys will settle your type of case very quickly since fault has already been determined. If you are only trying to recover 'damages' and not trying to get rich your case will be pretty much a 'slam dunk'.

 

[TeJay]

Again thanks for the replies. It sure does give a person a lot to think about. To answer some of your questions without compromizing our situation. Our insurance is State Farm. It happened in Terra Haute Ind. at a Pilot service are. We gassed up in the gas area but could not get out unless we went through the diesel area. We cautiously entered the area through a space which had three exit arrows painted on the pavement. We circled CCW past two diesel rigs which were parked. I was past the halfway point when I went around the last parked diesel rig and the dump coming from my left hit the front corner of the camper. I was already in my turn as determined by the pile of parts on the asphalt and where he hit me. It had already been determined that HE WAS COMPLETELY AT FAULT without any question.
They determined the replacement value by comparing prices on line to three comparably equipped units. I think their price is fair but may still question it.
I've got a call into my Niece who may be able to advise us as to how we would approach his insurance company. That seems to be the only way we can recoup other losses. We have already determined that the worst way to approach them is with both barrels loaded and cocked. We'll just see how a calm easy approach does before we bring out the big guns. I've already given his insurance company a recorded version of how it happened. He's done the same to my insurance company in which he admitted that he was at fault. One they realize that he has not a leg to stand on I think we will get what we are asking for. We are not trying to get rich but we don't want to be out any additional money because of his actions. I have not been as bothered by this like my wife has. If I stop suddenly, hit the rumble strip on the side of the road, or make a sudden move she's on the ceiling. She's really upset that we did all this work and will have to do it all over again. Almost every night she's making a trip (dreams) somewhere and can't get through some city. This kind of mental anguish and grief has to be worth something especially if you think that you might have to shell out an additional 8-14 thousand more dollars to get back to where you were before. My plan is to lay out our position to his insurance company. They can research the files and determine how he is at fault. Once they do that I don't think they will argue as long as we are reasonable in our request. All we want it to be where we were two weeks ago with no additional expenses. I am planning on asking them what dollar figure they would place on the time, mental anguish, aggrivation, 8 weeks without our camper during the prime season (Fall), etc, etc that we went through through no fault of ours but his. If they give me a figure I'll just double it and see what happens.

TeJay

Let me add this. We did not have the North trail but had recently purchased a new unit. It was on its maiden voyage and only had 1,500 miles on it when it was totaled.

 

[porthole]

Good luck, but you are already at a disadvantage with time as the 30 day mark approaches. You were not injured, so there really is no pain and suffering.

If you feel being Mister Nice Guy is going to work with the insurance company your a better person then I am.
I really think you are not going to get anywhere without help. Your insurance company has tendered the policy limits and has washed their hands. Had they offered to and paid you the amount that would make you whole, they would still have a piece in this fight and would be going after the other policy to <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->[FONT=&quot]subrogate [/FONT]the claim. And as far as that goes, I think you should contact your insuance (and not just an agent) to see if they are going to subrogate the loss. If they are, you have something else to work with.


Food for thought, with your nest camper, look into a policy that will be an agreed value. For example, my policy has a rider which matches replacement cost for the trailers value when I bought it (including the added on independent suspensions and disc brakes)

 

[TeJay]

UPDATE: Here's the latest but the story is not over just yet. The Wife was talking on the phone with the other insurance company rep when I got home today. She was trying the nice approach but was getting a bit of a runaround. Some items were not covered by our insurance and we were told that his insurance would cover them. His insurance agent said that our insurance would cover them. At that point the Wife got a little testy. SF, our insurance has stepped up a little and agreed to increase their offer. They also agreed to contact his insurance co. to assist in getting us coverage for those items that were not covered under our policy. We again spoke with his company and we faxed all receipts for those items not covered by SF. If it works out we will be able to get a duplicate of our camper. It will be outfitted the same with all the upgrades that we had. We will have enough funds to replace all broken item. We will not be out any money. Obviously there was a lot of grief, stress, irritation, and frustration that is not recoverable under any insurance policy. We will also miss some prime camping time while we wait 6-8 weeks for the new camper. Then there will be time spent setting up and outfitting the new camper.
We wish that it had never happened but it did. We were cautious before and did not push the envelope and I'm sure we will still operate that way but with a different perspective. All of our paperwork regarding the camper/TV will be in order and in a safe place where it can be obtained more easily. We will check into the price for a little better insurance policy covering the camper and its contents. Your contents are covered but by your homeowners insurance which requires you to pay another deductible. We may get it if it is not to expensive. Phone numbers for such emergencies will be located in several places. I am not an alarmist, I do not worry about much but I do like to be prepared. Who knows, if one prepares for the worst maybe one will never have to use it.

When the dust finally settles I will give you all an update. I do hope this thread has given readers some food for thought. Again thanks for all the responses, suggestions and points for consideration. The Heartland forums are the best.

Yours,
TeJay Tim & Liz
Bella - Golden (Cocker mix)
Alex - Berman

 

[jimtoo]

Thanks for keeping us updated Tim.
Jim M

 

[danemayer]

Phone numbers for such emergencies will be located in several places. I am not an alarmist, I do not worry about much but I do like to be prepared. Who knows, if one prepares for the worst maybe one will never have to use it.

Hi TeJay,

Let me point you to some downloadable forms I created. These forms can be stored on your computer. Fill in the blanks, save and print and keep copies where you'll be able to easily retrieve them in an emergency. We keep a set in the truck and another set in the RV. We've used our medical history forms an unfortunate number of times in emergency rooms, and they're also useful in Doctor's offices. The best part is that when an update is needed, you simply edit the copy you saved and print the update.

 

[jmgratz]

Hi TeJay,
I am somewhat confused. Why is your insurance paying anything since the 'accident' was not your fault? Unless you live in a no-fault state. I know here in Texas our insurance would not pay anything if an accident was not our fault unless we had 'uninsured motorist' coverage. What would happen is the offending party's insurance would cover the entire event. Also if your insurance pays then you will have a claim on record which will cause your rates to increase. Just thinking...

 

[TeJay]

Porthole,
Sorry for not explaining exactly where we were located. The accident happened in Terre Haute IN at a Pilot service area just off the expressway. The local police made the call. They were very helpful and vary nice. Let me back up a little. When we pull off the expressway to get fuel (gasoline) we have to scope out the service areas because the gas area is not always user friendly to pick-ups pulling a TT. The diesel area, if they primarily service 18-wheelers is large but most times they won't have a gas pump. This was the third bad experience at a Pilot service area. One Pilot area was so difficult I literally could not get in and then turned down a dead end and made a really difficult turn-around. The Terre Haute gas area had three pump lanes and it was surrounded with obstacles on the perimeter, curbs, ditches, and buildings. There was no easy exit except right in front of the center pump lane there was an opening in the curb and the exit was marked with three arrows painted on the pavement. So I chose the center pumps with a plan to exit into the diesel truck area. In hind sight I could have chosen the right gas pump lane and made a CCW circle after filling up and probably made an easy exit the same way I came in. When I saw the arrows I used the center gas pump lane, gassed up on the left side of my truck and exited into the diesel truck area. That's when and where the accident happened. I just never expected somebody driving carelessly to be in that area. I saw several trucks leave but they are almost always careful and cautious as they enter and leave. It is an area that requires all 18-wheelers after they fuel up to do a CCW circle and leave the same way they came in. After having three experiences at the Pilot's and they were all tight and congested I've decided that they are not friendly to pick-ups pulling TT. Wal-Mart fuel areas can be difficult as well. Some are good but most locate their pumps on the outer edge of their lots or at the corners which means that their are usually two curbs to negotiate around. Sometimes when you enter you have to make a U-turn to get to the outside pump. That means that the outside pump has to be the open one so you can make the turn and fill up on the left side of the truck. We always try to use an exit that has multiple service stations so we have choices and can then select pumps that are accessible to the left side of the truck. This last fuel stop was needed because we were at about 25 miles to empty.

TeJay

 

[TeJay]

I did respond to jmgratz and danemayer but for some reason the post did not show up. So again thanks for the forms. They look good and we will probably use them. Our insurance copany covered most of the accident and they will go after him to recover their $$$$. They will also salvage the wrecked unit and salvage 4-6 grand worth of appliances. While SF will pay on the claim it should not be charged against our record but we will be sure and ask. His insurance company will pay our $500 deductible and we can recover motel, meals, and broken items from the camper as well. SF did step up and increase the amount that they originally offered. We could have used our homeowners policy but that would incur another deductible. In AR if you buy a 30-K unit and have a 20-K trade-in they tax you on the difference. We have no trade-in so we will be taxed on the full amount. That's about another $1000 out of pocket. SF is going to cover the difference. We have not signed off on either insurance company and won't until we are satisfied. We are waiting to hear from both companies. We have ordered the new unit but don't know when it will be ready.

TeJay