What's your favorite carry weapon?
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JanAndBill
Well-known member
If you're using 00 or slugs you'll stop whatever is coming after you, leave a really big mess in your rig and probaly do a lot of damage to your rig as well. If you're using #6 or #7 shot unless you are really close you'll just make whoever you shot really mad. However, in the dark when you been woke up from a deep sleep by an intruder, the shotgun is a good defense. No aim required just point in the general direction if loaded with buck shot.
alex00
Well-known member
Please aim your shotguns. 00 buck does not produce a wide cloud of pellets that harmlessly dissipate if they miss their target. It's a tight group of pellets the size of .38 rounds that will rip through RV walls like paper.
fulltime5er
Member
My new carry gun is a Kahr CW45. Good firepower, easily concealed in a Crossbreed Mini tuck, and light enough to carry all day.
This is such a wide spread fallacy that it isn't even funny anymore. At any range you're likely to encounter in an RV (and the average home for that matter) you had best aim that shotty. Real life isnt hollywood and you aren't going to clear half the room just by "pointing in the general direction". And I guarantee that in any roomsized encounter, #6 or #7 shot is going to do way more than make someone mad.
Good point.
A general rule of thumb is that a buckshot load will spread about 1" per yard using a 12 gauge.
So in your RV the longest shot you might take would be no more than 5 yards.
This would result in a 5" pattern.
Choke size does not seem to matter much when using any sized buckshot.
This is no time to close your eyes and shoot in the general direction. You must aim.
Another thing worth noting is the the larger the shot size the the more energy retained, the deeper the penetration.
Buckshot will most certainly exit the wall of any RV and most homes.
JMHO
Peace
Dave
porthole
Retired
Not disputing Dave's number, rather disputing the myth of the "no aim, just point and shoot scatter gun".
The "Newhall incident"
2 LEO's pull over 2 bad guys. While one LEO is searching the driver, the passenger exits the car. The 2nd LEO was carrying a 12 gauge Remington 870, loaded with buckshot and unfortunately at "port arms", and approaching the car from the rear, at the right rear quarter of the car. Port arms - one handed, butt stock on the hip, barrel facing up.
The bad guy exited the passenger seat and drew down on the officer so fast that the LEO did not have time to get his 870 in firing position, never firing a shot he suffered two 357 fatal wounds. Unfortunately the 1st LEO, in an attempt to defend his partner, lost track of the first perp and was gunned down at point blank range.
Next 2 LEO's on scene engaged the bad guys, one with a Remington 870. The LEO with the 870 fired the gun so fast he accidentally ejected a live round, and of all the rounds fired - ONE PELLET hit a bad guy in the forehead, and only inflicted a minor injury. I don't have a Remmy 870, but every pump I do have requires a distinct action to eject a live round, so I don't understand how this happened. Do 870's have a release tab in front of the trigger guard like many others?
In all, 4 CA Highway Patrol officers were gunned down. These were trained officers, 2 using 12 gauge shotguns, who between the two, only made one hit with one pellet.
The above incident completely changed firearm instructions for LEO's across the country. Not only was the training for shotguns insufficient, but in LA at the time, all officers trained with .38's but carried .357's. In the shootout, the LEO firing the revolver had no hits and was executed while trying to re-load, one shell at a time, as at the time, they were not issued speed loaders. It is believed his accuracy suffered due to training with light .38's and then firing the much heavier .357.
Point is, these were 4 well trained (at the time) young officers (23-24) who should have won the battle. How many civilians actually expend anywhere near the time and energy as LEO's training and actually firing their weapons? We are responsible for every round hit or miss.
BTW, this was the same incident in which a civilian happened upon the scene (former marine), picked up one of the discarded weapons and engaged the bad guys.
He also did not get any hits before running out of ammo. Luck was on his side though and he managed to avoid getting shot.
And remember - racking the slide of a pump shotgun only gives away your position.
Lynn1130
Well-known member
The answer to the 870 question is yes, there is a release that has to be engaged before a live round can be ejected. In the heat of the battle (and stress training) I have seen officers dump mags with 5 or more rounds, hit the mag release and drop a full mag and many other strange things. Many times there is no time to do more than point and shoot and that is why the front sight is stressed heavily in training. And most importantly, owning a weapon of any type and never training, under stress, with it is basically more dangerous to the surroundings than the perp. Newhall changed a number of items in firearms training not the least of which was dumping empty brass into your hand, so that it could be put in a can for whatever reuse. We learn from our mistakes but sometimes at the cost of lives. North Hollywood changed the type of weapons available to line officers. Shotguns were worthless against assault rifles.
I had another thought after writing the above. We had a shooting incident where the officer and armed robbery suspect ended up side by side, nose to tail in their respective vehicles. The officer fired 6 rounds into the suspect's driver's side door before the suspect floored it and took off again. The lesson here? Assess your target. Don't always teach to shoot center mass when on the range. Center mass does no good if it is blocked by cover.
I had another thought after writing the above. We had a shooting incident where the officer and armed robbery suspect ended up side by side, nose to tail in their respective vehicles. The officer fired 6 rounds into the suspect's driver's side door before the suspect floored it and took off again. The lesson here? Assess your target. Don't always teach to shoot center mass when on the range. Center mass does no good if it is blocked by cover.
Porthole the 870 does have a release in front of the trigger guard that has to be depressed to open the action and eject a live round. However, if the action was not closed completely the shotgun would not fire and you could rack another round, ejecting the current live round without depressing the release. If I was going to use a shotgun for close quarters defense, like in a toy hauler, I would probably use #6 shot with an open choke not buckshot. The penetration capability of buckshot is much to high to be stopped by an RV wall and maybe 3 or 4 walls beyond that. In my case I have kids so it's imperitive that I aquire and identify the target prior to discharging a weapon of any kind and using a scatter gun is out of the question in my situation.
Grey Ghost
Well-known member
I love my AK-47 and my AR-15, however I carry a Ruger 9mm in the 5ver and a S&W .38 in the truck which is holstered right under the steering column very accessible if needed. Hope I never need to use it!
Happy Campers
Well-known member
I take my wife with me every place I go as it saves a lot of trouble for me.
